Susan G
 
OTOH, FL Studio does in fact offer free lifetime upgrades.
 
-Susan

Yes, and it took them 8 years after Sonar to provide a 64-bit version, didn't it?
You get what you pay for, kind of....
 
and that goes for Reaper as well...bought 3.6 in 2010, and v4 was real upgrade in features - but after that nothing much, in my view....
 
...so now 5 years later you got the second update, what I consider an update - that is payable v5.0.
Again, you get what you pay for....
 
StudioOne, nothing happend basically for two years - everybody hope v3 is around the corner.
 
Cubase, 20 years of patches - I cannot even imagine sitting all days with that software. Hiddeous workflow and nothing is named as in mixer or audio world. Cubase Elements is good value for money, but so cut down on features so you really need at least Cubase Artist in my view.
 
Avid ProTools - pay every year or buy full new license when wanting an upgrade. Yes, you can rent for $30/month that stops working when stops paying.
 
Nobody can doubt dedication from Cakewalk to make Sonar really attractive choice for anybody. Really generous entry level with Sonar Artist and if you rather get a package with just about all in plugins you need you go for Sonar Pro or Platinum. Get DDMF Metaplugin - and overcome what was the main routing limitations of Sonar. And since X3 Sonar has been very stable for me....and Bakers are communicating with userbase in a way that I like...

mudgel
Beware Cubase AI is nothing like the real thing.
Despite Sonars notation limitations Jerry Gerber who is one of the most recognised MIDI musicians is able to produce very complex scores and compositions using Sonars notation editor. Not that he doesn't want some improvements himself.

It shows that it's really the persons talent that can work within limitations of the tools and still produce excellent work.

I've never known tools to get in the way of really talented people. People spend a lot of tIme shopping around without making any music. Surely you can make music with any DAW.

Hi Mike-
 
Sure, you can make music with any DAW, but didn't Jerry say recently he was moving to Digital Performer because of limitations in SONAR's Staff View?
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3209888
 
-Susan

lfm

Susan G
 
OTOH, FL Studio does in fact offer free lifetime upgrades.
 
-Susan

Yes, and it took them 8 years after Sonar to provide a 64-bit version, didn't it?
You get what you pay for, kind of....
 
and that goes for Reaper as well...bought 3.6 in 2010, and v4 was real upgrade in features - but after that nothing much, in my view....
 
...so now 5 years later you got the second update, what I consider an update - that is payable v5.0.
Again, you get what you pay for....
 
StudioOne, nothing happend basically for two years - everybody hope v3 is around the corner.
 
Cubase, 20 years of patches - I cannot even imagine sitting all days with that software. Hiddeous workflow and nothing is named as in mixer or audio world. Cubase Elements is good value for money, but so cut down on features so you really need at least Cubase Artist in my view.
 
Avid ProTools - pay every year or buy full new license when wanting an upgrade. Yes, you can rent for $30/month that stops working when stops paying.
 
Nobody can doubt dedication from Cakewalk to make Sonar really attractive choice for anybody. Really generous entry level with Sonar Artist and if you rather get a package with just about all in plugins you need you go for Sonar Pro or Platinum. Get DDMF Metaplugin - and overcome what was the main routing limitations of Sonar. And since X3 Sonar has been very stable for me....and Bakers are communicating with userbase in a way that I like...

lfm

Susan G
 
OTOH, FL Studio does in fact offer free lifetime upgrades.
 
-Susan

Yes, and it took them 8 years after Sonar to provide a 64-bit version, didn't it?
You get what you pay for, kind of....
 
and that goes for Reaper as well...bought 3.6 in 2010, and v4 was real upgrade in features - but after that nothing much, in my view....
 
...so now 5 years later you got the second update, what I consider an update - that is payable v5.0.
Again, you get what you pay for....
 
StudioOne, nothing happend basically for two years - everybody hope v3 is around the corner.
 
Cubase, 20 years of patches - I cannot even imagine sitting all days with that software. Hiddeous workflow and nothing is named as in mixer or audio world. Cubase Elements is good value for money, but so cut down on features so you really need at least Cubase Artist in my view.
 
Avid ProTools - pay every year or buy full new license when wanting an upgrade. Yes, you can rent for $30/month that stops working when stops paying.
 
Nobody can doubt dedication from Cakewalk to make Sonar really attractive choice for anybody. Really generous entry level with Sonar Artist and if you rather get a package with just about all in plugins you need you go for Sonar Pro or Platinum. Get DDMF Metaplugin - and overcome what was the main routing limitations of Sonar. And since X3 Sonar has been very stable for me....and Bakers are communicating with userbase in a way that I like...

Hi Lars-
 
Okay, fine. I don't really want to debate the virtues of one DAW's upgrade policy or what's included in their upgrades over another here. I just wanted to clarify that REAPER does not offer lifetime free upgrades and FL Studio does.
 
-Susan

Referring to post 552.
Yep, that was a couple of weeks ago but in any case the music he made up to date he made with Sonar and even in this same thread he's shown folks how to over come / work around some of their biggest gripes with Sonars notation. I don't really want to put words in Jerry's mouth and should let his post speak for itself. Jerry's move seems more motivated by his thoughts about future notation development, but, after all, he has still been prolific in his use of Sonar to date. While it may have been more difficult the restriction of the tools didn't stop him from being creative in the expression of his talents.

It may well be that DP on PC has now evolved so that it suits his purposes better. But DP is a relative newcomer to the PC.

For my scoring needs I've long used other programs but still use Sonar for basic note input via the notation editor when required. Admittedly it's not the main focus of where I worked though.
I can only speak for me and on the balance of uses across all the DAWs I've tried and use, Sonar provides me the workflow for most of what I want to do.

mudgel
Referring to post 552.
Yep, that was a couple of weeks ago but in any case the music he made up to date he made with Sonar and even in this same thread he's shown folks how to over come / work around some of their biggest gripes with Sonars notation. I don't really want to put words in Jerry's mouth and should let his post speak for itself. Jerry's move seems more motivated by his thoughts about future notation development, but, after all, he has still been prolific in his use of Sonar to date. While it may have been more difficult the restriction of the tools didn't stop him from being creative in the expression of his talents.

It may well be that DP on PC has now evolved so that it suits his purposes better. But DP is a relative newcomer to the PC.

For my scoring needs I've long used other programs but still use Sonar for basic note input via the notation editor when required. Admittedly it's not the main focus of where I worked though.
I can only speak for me and on the balance of uses across all the DAWs I've tried and use, Sonar provides me the workflow for most of what I want to do.

As Jerry has proven you can do work in Sonar's Staff View.  You also can build a house with a saw and hammer but I prefer power tools. 

mudgel
Beware Cubase AI is nothing like the real thing.
Despite Sonars notation limitations Jerry Gerber who is one of the most recognised MIDI musicians is able to produce very complex scores and compositions using Sonars notation editor. Not that he doesn't want some improvements himself.

It shows that it's really the persons talent that can work within limitations of the tools and still produce excellent work.

I've never known tools to get in the way of really talented people. People spend a lot of tIme shopping around without making any music. Surely you can make music with any DAW.

Agreed. I have produced 5 symphonic works in Sonar, doing my midi editing in staff view. Now, I'm not Jerry, I'm just a hobbyist, and publishing and performances are probably not going to happen for me. I just need notation that will serve as a true, if basic, record of my music (in case a great-great nephew finds it and happens to know a conductor...). Sonar's current notation just won't do. you can't even print a condensed page of the instruments actually playing at the time - Sonar makes you print pages with all instruments, playing or not. This is not acceptable. and of course the triplets...
 
Yes, I can produce the sound version in sonar, and do a print version in another program, but again, for my needs, just a basic but minimally professional notation system would let me do it all in one program. That's what I'm looking for.

Susan G
OTOH, FL Studio does in fact offer free lifetime upgrades.

Yes, but as a fine point this doesn't apply to everything, just like the SONAR membership program doesn't include Cakewalk's new iOS programs or instruments. From their web site:
 
Does this mean you will get everything we develop for free from now on ?
 
Not everything: A lot of the new stuff we develop is built in to FL Studio and is included in the Lifetime Free Updates. We do this to improve the application and keep it competitive with other software on the market. As the industry grows so does FL Studio and what it can do. You win!
 
Sometimes when we develop something new, like a software synthesizer or other module, we investigate whether to build it into the main application and include it free, or offer it as an optional add-on purchase.
 
And back to topic, I do think Vintagevibe's assessment of what the community wants is accurate for the majority of users. FWIW there were two Staff View fixes in the Dorchester. They're obviously baby steps, but at least it seems like Staff view is popping up on the radar. \

* Tracks are now listed numerically in the Staff View

* Staff View Track Pane no longer forgets picked tracks when changing screensets

michael diemer
Studio One is another possible option, as they also produce Notion, which we can surmise may be integrated into the DAW at some point.

I think the integration is the same that Notion can do with any program, it's not like there are special hooks. Not that there won't be at some point, but V3 isn't due until later in the year so we'll have to wait a while to find out.

And one last comment...if Jerry is going to move away from SONAR, I'm at least glad to see he's supporting DP. They're also from Boston, and really kind of got the shaft when, after supporting Apple through thick and thin (including the Gil Amelio years), Apple abruptly pulled Logic from stores and sold it for $199 - thus undercutting pretty much everyone on that platform.

With this much emotion about Staff View, I'm surprised Cakewalk doesn't just bite the bullet and fix the stuff on the list that doesn't require a major rewrite.