jsg

Kev999
Staff View is one of the most overlooked features of Sonar...

Actually I use the event list for detailed editing...I've never been able to see any advantage of the piano roll view...

 
PRV is a good tool when dealing with notes that start or stop not exactly on the beat. A piano chord always consists of notes that don't hit exactly together and each have different velocity values. Zoomed in, you can tweak these details easily and accurately.

I guess that Event List View is another overlooked feature too. So I intend to try using these 3 views (ELV/PRV/SV) together side-by-side and see what the benefits are.

Paul P

jsg
What I don't really know or understand is why this indifference to this part of the program exists and why, update after update and version after version, they make few improvements (making the staff view track pane dark was a welcome change) and add new bugs.  It makes no sense.
 

It may be that no one still at Cakewalk knows anything about the internals of the staff view editor.
 
Or that it was so badly written no one has been able to figure it out.
 
It seems evident that whatever is needed will require a lot of work.  More than the tweaks the rest of the system gets on a regular basis.
 
[/quote
I suspect no one at cakewalk can read sheet music, and when it comes up I the annual 'what the username has asked for this time' meeting, they all go quiet and look into the cakewalk coffee mugs.

The middle tier is called sonar professional. It should not be beyond a professional music producer to work with staff view. Say I get a horn section, of string section in, or ask for a professional musician to perform a part of my midi composition. What would they want, staff view, and transposed and notated properly.

Sonar is not a complete music composition and production tool, and it's composition side is being left behind.

I think it's shameful they keep neglecting staff view year after year, partly because it's neglecting a loyal username demands year after year, and because it's a basis of music writing.

I am terrible at Reading sheet music, but it doesn't stop it being important to me.

Jimbo 88
More Staff View stuff....
How hard would it be to make possible to transpose Chords?  Or make it easier to input Chords?
How hard is to allow staff view to display odd numbers of notes in a beat like septuplets?
I would think those two things would be very easy and make a lot of people happy.

FWIW, it's easy to transpose chords, select the chord then Process->Transpose. It doesn't change the inversion but you can transpose to any interval.
Unfortunately you might be stuck manually inputting multiples of 137 to get septuplets for a while, let's get them to fix the basics first. :)
 

What they should do, is hire some new wizzkids educated through the Berkley College of music system, to add a fresh perspective.
 
 
Oh wait a sec!

jsg

dubdisciple
The assumption that those who don't  regulalry use the staff view cannot read or write music is pure snobby stereotyping. I have been reading music since 3rd grade and I know plenty of people with degrees in music who simply do not use it in their DAW. It's those kind of comments that have always lessened my sympathy for those complaining  about staff view.

You're right, even though that's not how I meant it, I apologize, I didn't mean to offend you.   It's probably related to the powerlessness I feel when it comes to having a notation editor in my DAW that works correctly.  

Actually I apologize for overreacting.  I had just got finished dealing wit ha nissue where one of my students had a bad incident based strictly on sterotypes and then saw that.  Honestly, i do feel bad for those wanting improvements.  Although i think i understand why cake neglects it and i doubt it is the reason some of the people state. If cake was catering to the "loop crowd" they would not have been packaging the same loops for 7 years and would certainly have better sampling options.  There are probably just as many calls for ableton like features as there are for notation improvements.

I'd just like to chime in and say that I too am a very literate professional musician, yet I have never in my life used a staff view in a DAW. I use staff type notation for making sheet music and for that I have Sibelius. The piano roll, to me, seems to make infinitely more sense for writing, considering its higher level of detail.

That said, if I were ever to use the staff view, the minimum I would expect would be that the basics would work right, the earlier mentioned triplet issues seem completely unacceptable.

dubdisciple
The assumption that those who don't  regulalry use the staff view cannot read or write music is pure snobby stereotyping. I have been reading music since 3rd grade and I know plenty of people with degrees in music who simply do not use it in their DAW. It's those kind of comments that have always lessened my sympathy for those complaining  about staff view.

great post dubdisciple, I am just like you. same thing.
I began reading and writing music when I was 11. and when in a jam, I still write it now to throw down a quick idea when im not near an instrument.
but for some to claim we can not read or write music and that's why we don't use SV is ridicules.
 
I've been hammered when giving my opinion about staff view in the past, so I will save a long drawn out example of why you should probably be using a notation software like Sibelius.
instead a short analogy. I wouldn't purchase a car expecting a professional stereo system, I would go somewhere they specialized in pro stereo systems and buy one. if not, I would expect a basic stereo system, which is what sonar has in it's staff view.

jsg
 I've never been able to see any advantage of the piano roll view. 

I know sometimes its hard to break old habits and learn a different way of using things, like the PRV but just give it a fair shot.
you might be very impressed with what you can do with the PRV. it has become the standard among DAW's to work at a very fast rate.
I dont think sonar is the only DAW to be working on other things beside the staff view.
im not sure ive seen a DAW out there that has been focusing on improvements to their staff view.
if there was, I suspect you and many others wouldn't be here passionately stating your case.
which is fair enough.

chuckebaby
you might be very impressed with what you can do with the PRV. it has become the standard among DAW's to work at a very fast rate.

I get that - I think PRV is VERY useful. 
 
I compose on guitar though.  I know the fretboard (notes) and staff.  I don't use staff to create the SOUND (ie with a guitar synth) but I use it to document my ideas.  I can then use it to sight read and play my guitar while I record it's audio.
 
When I compose on guitar - it sucks to use PRV.   I know I want eight notes, chords etc and I know how many bars I want etc and it's FAR easier to not to have to think "keyboard layout" notes vs immediately seeing the staff.  I also see chords etc FAR better on staff than PRV.
 
And as for using PRV to sight read - have you ever tried that?  It's impossible because the note vertical spacing is "piano spaced" and you need to look to the left to see the relation.  The 'shaded' strips dont work. Not to mention the information in the 'note head' is FAR quicker than trying to use the 'length' of a PRV note to determine what the duration is.
 
I actually LIKE a lot of what I can do with the CW staff view.  But it could definitely use a fresh coat of paint.

Paul P
 
It may be that no one still at Cakewalk knows anything about the internals of the staff view editor.

This has been my thoughts on Staff View for several years now.
Only one CW staffer has responded to this thread. With promises of maybe.
All posts about Staff View eventually devolve into
 
"you really don't need it"
 
"Yes we do"
 
"Then buy a real notation program"
 
"Why can't they just work on this feature?"
 
No real response, except, "Maybe we will get to it someday"
Cakewalk has not and does not take our Staff View requests seriously. There just aren't enough of us to matter.