Thanks IFM for that info. I'm not sure I need or want a pro-level notation, just something that gives a true, if somewhat basic, representation of my music, which is full-orchestra. I'm not thinking so much in terms of publication/performance, but rather leaving something behind that makes sense to someone down the road. (Hey, we can all at least die hoping that someday our music will be played!).
 
I'm currently looking at MuseScore, trying to see if I can export midi to it and then do what I need to do to get it to a decent level.

 

michael diemer
I can't understand why cubase has such a reputation. I am mystified by its GUI. Don't like it all.

 The reputation is because of its sheer power.  It really has amazing functions (especially MIDI) that you really have to work with to appreciate.  The GUI is strange coming from Sonar but changing DAWs is always hard.  You may not need all that power and no DAW is right for everyone.  
 
Examples of MIDI functions that I like:  
 
1) I can play a timpani roll on a keyboard or drum pad that sounds exactly I want it to.  Then in the score I can turn it (visually) into a whole not with roll markings.  The underlying MIDI data is not changed but the score looks correct and doesn't have a 32nd note mess.  I wish Sibelius could do that.
2) The Time Warp function blows me away.  Among many other tricks you can manually or automatically move individual barlines to create the perfect timing. 
3)  Instead of using keyswitches and messing up my notation I can pull all articulations from a menu and simple mark the score with them just like I would with a real orchestra.
 
YMMV
 
p.s. Props to Sonar - I miss the docking.  Cubase is part of the way there but I still have a lot of windows to deal with.  
 

I did hear cubase has great midi editing. With Timpani, what I've done is put in every note in sonar, adjusting the length as needed. Then, I would notate it "correctly" in my "print version" of sonar, which is a condensed version without all the extra tracks for different patches. I would just put in a whole not or whatever, and when I printed it out, I would add in the wavy line by hand. Believe it or not, I have made full scores for five symphonic works doing things like that. but they were not meant for performance, just to send to the copyright office (in my younger years I suffered from the delusion that someone would actually be interested in performing my music).

Here in the Uk there appeared to be a major push in education by avid for both sibelius and protools. Craig is right that some users might not change daw .. but the 'lacking' notation tools would interfere with school's and colleges choice of Daw and thus effectivley breed a large number of Users who would not have used sonar and make their possible user/customer base smaller.

sonar has so many advantages for schools its a darn pity that it might always be overlooked because of this one area which just needs a little TLC.

I would pay xtra tomorrow if sonar charged a 100 or more if it improved this one essential aspect of the program.

For what it's worth, I am letting people know the following:
 
I've purchased DP8 for Windows and it is fantastic.  All my concerns about the event list, docking, multiple staff windows and everything else have been alleviated.  DP is superior to Sonar in ergonomics, MIDI functions (more of them and deeper, with more options), and of course the staff view displays triplets, tied triplets, 64th notes and dotted triplets correctly.  ;>)!  DP's handling of tempo and meter are also much more sophisticated than Sonar.
MIDI over LAN is great, I'm having no issues with MIDI, audio, VSTs or notation.
 
DP's Window sets work better than Sonar, I can hotkey multiple staff views, each with their own instrument tracks.  I was wrong about that too. 
 
The color choices are amazing.  They all work properly and are easy to change.  The program has more depth than Sonar and it feels and looks like a precision, professional tool, rather than the X series of Sonar which always looked more toyish to me.  The film scoring features are the best--DP's integration with timecode, streamers, punches and click tracks are amazing.  It is definitely designed for serious musicians, film, TV and game composers, arrangers, classical composers and orchestrators.  The chunks feature allows multiple sequences in one file, perfect for scoring cues to picture.  The learning-curve is fairly steep, it is a deep program. 
 
I had the concern that the event list wasn't color coded, but, again, thankfully, I was wrong.  You can do a search for any event in the list and DP will highlight it so checking for errors is easy. 
 
I lost faith in Cakewalk after multiple versions kept introducing new bugs and ignoring the old ones and they kept telling us they will get to the staff view.  Seems that CW is far more interested in adding new features than fixing bugs.  I couldn't live with that anymore.  After giving CW my money for 22 years I am done.  I uninstalled Sonar from my DAW and though I am still learning DP, I am happier about my DAW than I've been in years.    If CW doesn't change their mindset about what a DAW is, the competition is going to outdo them.  DP is proof.
 
Jerry
 
 

jsg
For what it's worth, I am letting people know the following:
 
I've purchased DP8 for Windows and it is fantastic.  All my concerns about the event list, docking, multiple staff windows and everything else have been alleviated.  DP is superior to Sonar in ergonomics, MIDI functions (more of them and deeper, with more options), and of course the staff view displays triplets, tied triplets, 64th notes and dotted triplets correctly.  ;>)!  DP's handling of tempo and meter are also much more sophisticated than Sonar.
MIDI over LAN is great, I'm having no issues with MIDI, audio, VSTs or notation.
 
DP's Window sets work better than Sonar, I can hotkey multiple staff views, each with their own instrument tracks.  I was wrong about that too. 
 
The color choices are amazing.  They all work properly and are easy to change.  The program has more depth than Sonar and it feels and looks like a precision, professional tool, rather than the X series of Sonar which always looked more toyish to me.  The film scoring features are the best--DP's integration with timecode, streamers, punches and click tracks are amazing.  It is definitely designed for serious musicians, film, TV and game composers, arrangers, classical composers and orchestrators.  The chunks feature allows multiple sequences in one file, perfect for scoring cues to picture.  The learning-curve is fairly steep, it is a deep program. 
 
I had the concern that the event list wasn't color coded, but, again, thankfully, I was wrong.  You can do a search for any event in the list and DP will highlight it so checking for errors is easy. 
 
I lost faith in Cakewalk after multiple versions kept introducing new bugs and ignoring the old ones and they kept telling us they will get to the staff view.  Seems that CW is far more interested in adding new features than fixing bugs.  I couldn't live with that anymore.  After giving CW my money for 22 years I am done.  I uninstalled Sonar from my DAW and though I am still learning DP, I am happier about my DAW than I've been in years.    If CW doesn't change their mindset about what a DAW is, the competition is going to outdo them.  DP is proof.
 
Jerry

I tried DP Win when it was first released but it had too many problems.

*I demoed it again this week & it's been greatly improved.

Thanks for the review Jerry. What has been the downside so far?
 

Chunks were something I really liked in DP.  I put in a feature request some time back for something like this in Sonar.  Video features are terrific.  When I tried demo the first time I kept running in to bugs.  I re-upped my demo and am in contact with a support guy this time in case I have problems.
 
 

jatoth
Thanks for the review Jerry. What has been the downside so far?
 

The only downside was when DP8 for Windows was first released, it was buggy, as to be expected with a first version for a new OS.  But with 8.07, I have found no serious issues at all, nothing that requires "workarounds" (I spent a good deal of valuable time hunting for "workarounds" with nearly every version of Sonar by comparison).  This is why I waited as long as I did.  I guess some people would consider the learning curve a downside, but I don't.  I study software manuals and really dive into things, so for me the learning curve is expected.  I'll be as fast on DP as I was with Sonar probably within a few months.
 
Jerry
www.jerrygerber.com
 

I would never say anything negative about DP simply because I don't have anything negative to say about it. It's a fine program and I've known the people behind it for literally decades. It was never really my cup of tea, yet when I was exclusively part of "press world" MOTU always made sure I had the latest version, and I always made sure to cover it and learn about it so I could write about tips and techniques because I felt it deserved the attention...even more so after what Apple did, with dropping the price of Logic and pulling the rug out from under competing software companies.
 
Similarly I can see why some people love Cubase, Ableton Live, FL Studio, Pro Tools, Mixcraft, or whatever. Each has its own target audience. Jerry, you ARE DP's target audience. What you want is something DP does extremely well. Conversely, what I want is something SONAR does extremely well - handle a huge variety of projects. I couldn't imagine, for example, creating a sample library in any other program, or narration for that matter (except in Sequoia, the only DAW I know of that can do four-point broadcast editing). I don't experience crashes or even glitches, and really, I don't need to do workarounds because my needs are congruent with what SONAR delivers.
 
The one place where I will take issue with you is your belief that CW is "far more interested in adding new features than fixing bugs." Ther bug fix list from X3 to Platinum, and during the first three releases, is significant. Granted, fixes are based on community input, and as I mentioned, most people don't buy SONAR for the staff view so their concerns lie elsewhere. One of the main reasons for introducing the Membership Program was specifically so that fixes would occur continuously, not just for a few months and then have to be put aside to develop a new version. One of Cakewalk's main priorities is to make SONAR at least as stable as any other DAW, and this was seen as a better way to meet that goal. I think the past three months have shown that Cakewalk is very serious about addressing bugs and workflow issues that have accumulated over the years.
 
Of course, the price Cakewalk pays for concentrating on fixes is there will always be people who find the latest release "underwhelming" since the improvements are under the hood. Regardless, at least to me VocalSync is incredibly useful and the only way I could have gotten it was by subscribing to Adobe Audition, which has something similar, or paying far more than what the SONAR update costs for a third-party plug-in. Mix Recall has also been huge for me, as someone who needs to create multiple versions of mixes and remixes. Matrix View means I don't have to ReWire Ableton Live into SONAR...ARA is a future-oriented protocol that's not just about integrating Melodyne...and so on.
 
If there's one thing I've learned after working with multiple DAWs over decades, it's that you need to find the one that addresses your needs the best.