Brando

pbognar
So as not to soil another forum thread, I will post some thoughts here.

If Cakewalk is concerned about the ROI of fixing the triplet issues in the SV, I must conclude that the code is unmaintainble, and a full rewrite would be required. If that's the case, then I understand why we may never see any fixes.

If voting for DAW software / features is done with dollars toward purchases or upgrades, it would not be in my best interest to upgrade Sonar at this point. I would be sending the wrong message. I will wait for a release which has the fixes and features which are important to me, or I will move on to something else which emerges as a suitable replacement.

I am dismayed at the years of silence from Cakewalk regarding the SV triplet issue. There is at least one other DAW application out there, where the Devs have indicated that their SV is in development, but will not be present in the next major release, rathther, more likely in the dot release following it. How refreshing.

Seriously thinking about joining Jerry on the DP path. I am concerned that most of the enhancements to Sonar are add-ons, not changes to the core functionality in areas of Midi (especially staff view) but also video. I am paid up with SPlat through early next year, so this is not going to be a knee jerk. It seems to me that Cake can occupy themselves adding and fixing CCC, mix recall, drum replacer, vocal alignment tool, the new .,?!/;'n start page, etc and never get to fixing core functionality, which is more in-line with my needs. (To be fair, Cake have also done a great job of fixing bugs, and the audio engine is excellent.) DP crossgrade is pretty attractive at $395. Would be equal or less than the cost of next year's SPlat membership plus whatever I would pick up for notation (already have Notion and Progression) and Vegas (low end) or other video editor/converter.
DP has a 30 day demo which I am going to try out. Only concern is whether I am going to like the trial enough to want to jump sooner. Hoping Cake have something up their sleeves with respect to video, and midi before end of the year. Even touch is largely abandoned.

Before you go joining Jerry on his journey, you should maybe read his post here on the Sonar forum where he discusses his return and why.
http://forum.cakewalk.com...ar-Again-m3241939.aspx

kitekrazy1

eph221
I agree, it seems like an obvious direction.  Finale got bought by some sports company  (the parent company).  It'd be nice if cakewalk just worked out something with them and brought finale back to musicians.  It's the last frontier of the perfect DAW.  I don't know why nobody pursues it.

  Too expensive.  It would be in the price range of Nuendo or passing Pro Tools.  You lock out the hobbyist and greatly reduce revenue.
 

Pro tools hasn't locked out the hobbyist, not in the least.   But who am I to tell others how to run their business?  I've followed cakewalk and finale since there very first iterations.  It's been a fun ride, sort of like watching the kids grow up.   Bless.

mudgel

Brando

pbognar
So as not to soil another forum thread, I will post some thoughts here.

If Cakewalk is concerned about the ROI of fixing the triplet issues in the SV, I must conclude that the code is unmaintainble, and a full rewrite would be required. If that's the case, then I understand why we may never see any fixes.

If voting for DAW software / features is done with dollars toward purchases or upgrades, it would not be in my best interest to upgrade Sonar at this point. I would be sending the wrong message. I will wait for a release which has the fixes and features which are important to me, or I will move on to something else which emerges as a suitable replacement.

I am dismayed at the years of silence from Cakewalk regarding the SV triplet issue. There is at least one other DAW application out there, where the Devs have indicated that their SV is in development, but will not be present in the next major release, rathther, more likely in the dot release following it. How refreshing.

Seriously thinking about joining Jerry on the DP path. I am concerned that most of the enhancements to Sonar are add-ons, not changes to the core functionality in areas of Midi (especially staff view) but also video. I am paid up with SPlat through early next year, so this is not going to be a knee jerk. It seems to me that Cake can occupy themselves adding and fixing CCC, mix recall, drum replacer, vocal alignment tool, the new .,?!/;'n start page, etc and never get to fixing core functionality, which is more in-line with my needs. (To be fair, Cake have also done a great job of fixing bugs, and the audio engine is excellent.) DP crossgrade is pretty attractive at $395. Would be equal or less than the cost of next year's SPlat membership plus whatever I would pick up for notation (already have Notion and Progression) and Vegas (low end) or other video editor/converter.
DP has a 30 day demo which I am going to try out. Only concern is whether I am going to like the trial enough to want to jump sooner. Hoping Cake have something up their sleeves with respect to video, and midi before end of the year. Even touch is largely abandoned.

Before you go joining Jerry on his journey, you should maybe read his post here on the Sonar forum where he discusses his return and why.
http://forum.cakewalk.com...ar-Again-m3241939.aspx

I already did and replied to him in that thread thanks. But things like small font size are less of a concern to me, as is multiple staff composition. A simple 4-6 part staff view is perfect for me. Jerry's requirements are significantly different and I always suspected he'd struggle given his years of familiarity with Sonar - it boils down to work flow. In my own case my current curiosity about DP8 is largely driven by the fact that most of the enhancements in SPlat are things I am not interested in - the bug fixes have been great, and SPlat runs like a top. That's something. The add-ins and tack-ons less so (in my personal case only).
There is definitely a "greener grass" aspect to my curiosity with DP. I have been loyal to SONAR and Cake for years. It may be as Jerry found, just greener grass - but I intend to find out.
My biggest concern with SPlat is that "enhancements" coming up are for drum replacement, CCC, start view, etc, which didn't even exist in X3 - cake rolls out a new feature, then promptly fixes it in a subsequent month.
How about Touch? - Cake touted it as the next big thing and then promptly abandoned it. I bought a touchscreen monitor and can't do basic touch functions in SPlat that I can do in Windows.
Anyway, nothing about either Studio 1 or Cubase has interested me so far, but DP's emphasis on composition and video seems to be the right emphasis for my needs.
I'll see if the reality matches the hype.
Apologies for the lengthy response.
(Edit) actually Cubase looks awesome but I hate the concept of the dongle. Might be time to rethink that too.

Brando

I already did and replied to him in that thread thanks. But things like small font size are less of a concern to me, as is multiple staff composition. A simple 4-6 part staff view is perfect for me. Jerry's requirements are significantly different and I always suspected he'd struggle given his years of familiarity with Sonar - it boils down to work flow. In my own case my current curiosity about DP8 is largely driven by the fact that most of the enhancements in SPlat are things I am not interested in - the bug fixes have been great, and SPlat runs like a top. That's something. The add-ins and tack-ons less so (in my personal case only).
There is definitely a "greener grass" aspect to my curiosity with DP. I have been loyal to SONAR and Cake for years. It may be as Jerry found, just greener grass - but I intend to find out.
My biggest concern with SPlat is that "enhancements" coming up are for drum replacement, CCC, start view, etc, which didn't even exist in X3 - cake rolls out a new feature, then promptly fixes it in a subsequent month.
How about Touch? - Cake touted it as the next big thing and then promptly abandoned it. I bought a touchscreen monitor and can't do basic touch functions in SPlat that I can do in Windows.
Anyway, nothing about either Studio 1 or Cubase has interested me so far, but DP's emphasis on composition and video seems to be the right emphasis for my needs.
I'll see if the reality matches the hype.
Apologies for the lengthy response.
(Edit) actually Cubase looks awesome but I hate the concept of the dongle. Might be time to rethink that too.

 
I'm in the same boat, Brando.  After many years of Cakewalk sending out notation surveys and never improving it, along with stability issues,  I made the switch to Cubase.  Cubase notation is by far the most advanced in any DAW.  It does some pretty cool things that even Sibelius can't do.  I don't like the dongle either but it's a small price to pay for the notation and MIDI power I have now.  I don't need to use keyswitches any more, I can just pull articulations from a menu and put them in the score.  Very cool stuff.  Another thing is that Steinberg is working on a dongle-less solution but no one knows when it will be implemented.  I avoided switching from Cakewalk/Sonar for years hoping for usable notation and the switch took some effort but was the only solution for notation and turned out to be well worth it.
 
p.s. Daring to say such things here usually results in hate and even profanity aimed at me.  Try not to get caught up in it.  It's just how this forum is. 

Brando

mudgel

Brando

pbognar
So as not to soil another forum thread, I will post some thoughts here.

If Cakewalk is concerned about the ROI of fixing the triplet issues in the SV, I must conclude that the code is unmaintainble, and a full rewrite would be required. If that's the case, then I understand why we may never see any fixes.

If voting for DAW software / features is done with dollars toward purchases or upgrades, it would not be in my best interest to upgrade Sonar at this point. I would be sending the wrong message. I will wait for a release which has the fixes and features which are important to me, or I will move on to something else which emerges as a suitable replacement.

I am dismayed at the years of silence from Cakewalk regarding the SV triplet issue. There is at least one other DAW application out there, where the Devs have indicated that their SV is in development, but will not be present in the next major release, rathther, more likely in the dot release following it. How refreshing.

Seriously thinking about joining Jerry on the DP path. I am concerned that most of the enhancements to Sonar are add-ons, not changes to the core functionality in areas of Midi (especially staff view) but also video. I am paid up with SPlat through early next year, so this is not going to be a knee jerk. It seems to me that Cake can occupy themselves adding and fixing CCC, mix recall, drum replacer, vocal alignment tool, the new .,?!/;'n start page, etc and never get to fixing core functionality, which is more in-line with my needs. (To be fair, Cake have also done a great job of fixing bugs, and the audio engine is excellent.) DP crossgrade is pretty attractive at $395. Would be equal or less than the cost of next year's SPlat membership plus whatever I would pick up for notation (already have Notion and Progression) and Vegas (low end) or other video editor/converter.
DP has a 30 day demo which I am going to try out. Only concern is whether I am going to like the trial enough to want to jump sooner. Hoping Cake have something up their sleeves with respect to video, and midi before end of the year. Even touch is largely abandoned.

Before you go joining Jerry on his journey, you should maybe read his post here on the Sonar forum where he discusses his return and why.
http://forum.cakewalk.com...ar-Again-m3241939.aspx

I already did and replied to him in that thread thanks. But things like small font size are less of a concern to me, as is multiple staff composition. A simple 4-6 part staff view is perfect for me. Jerry's requirements are significantly different and I always suspected he'd struggle given his years of familiarity with Sonar - it boils down to work flow. In my own case my current curiosity about DP8 is largely driven by the fact that most of the enhancements in SPlat are things I am not interested in - the bug fixes have been great, and SPlat runs like a top. That's something. The add-ins and tack-ons less so (in my personal case only).
There is definitely a "greener grass" aspect to my curiosity with DP. I have been loyal to SONAR and Cake for years. It may be as Jerry found, just greener grass - but I intend to find out.
My biggest concern with SPlat is that "enhancements" coming up are for drum replacement, CCC, start view, etc, which didn't even exist in X3 - cake rolls out a new feature, then promptly fixes it in a subsequent month.
How about Touch? - Cake touted it as the next big thing and then promptly abandoned it. I bought a touchscreen monitor and can't do basic touch functions in SPlat that I can do in Windows.
Anyway, nothing about either Studio 1 or Cubase has interested me so far, but DP's emphasis on composition and video seems to be the right emphasis for my needs.
I'll see if the reality matches the hype.
Apologies for the lengthy response.
(Edit) actually Cubase looks awesome but I hate the concept of the dongle. Might be time to rethink that too.

I'm glad you already saw and commented in Jerrys thread. Just wanted to post about it here. No need to apologise to me. I don't see these things as a matter of loyalty as I use the tools I see fit it's my dollar, my choice as it is yours.
I've made my choices.

vintagevibe

Brando

I already did and replied to him in that thread thanks. But things like small font size are less of a concern to me, as is multiple staff composition. A simple 4-6 part staff view is perfect for me. Jerry's requirements are significantly different and I always suspected he'd struggle given his years of familiarity with Sonar - it boils down to work flow. In my own case my current curiosity about DP8 is largely driven by the fact that most of the enhancements in SPlat are things I am not interested in - the bug fixes have been great, and SPlat runs like a top. That's something. The add-ins and tack-ons less so (in my personal case only).
There is definitely a "greener grass" aspect to my curiosity with DP. I have been loyal to SONAR and Cake for years. It may be as Jerry found, just greener grass - but I intend to find out.
My biggest concern with SPlat is that "enhancements" coming up are for drum replacement, CCC, start view, etc, which didn't even exist in X3 - cake rolls out a new feature, then promptly fixes it in a subsequent month.
How about Touch? - Cake touted it as the next big thing and then promptly abandoned it. I bought a touchscreen monitor and can't do basic touch functions in SPlat that I can do in Windows.
Anyway, nothing about either Studio 1 or Cubase has interested me so far, but DP's emphasis on composition and video seems to be the right emphasis for my needs.
I'll see if the reality matches the hype.
Apologies for the lengthy response.
(Edit) actually Cubase looks awesome but I hate the concept of the dongle. Might be time to rethink that too.

 
I'm in the same boat, Brando.  After many years of Cakewalk sending out notation surveys and never improving it, along with stability issues,  I made the switch to Cubase.  Cubase notation is by far the most advanced in any DAW.  It does some pretty cool things that even Sibelius can't do.  I don't like the dongle either but it's a small price to pay for the notation and MIDI power I have now.  I don't need to use keyswitches any more, I can just pull articulations from a menu and put them in the score.  Very cool stuff.  Another thing is that Steinberg is working on a dongle-less solution but no one knows when it will be implemented.  I avoided switching from Cakewalk/Sonar for years hoping for usable notation and the switch took some effort but was the only solution for notation and turned out to be well worth it.
 
p.s. Daring to say such things here usually results in hate and even profanity aimed at me.  Try not to get caught up in it.  It's just how this forum is. 

Hi VintageVibe - thanks for the comments. Stability has rarely been an issue with SONAR for me. It has performed very well, and in that respect, Platinum is the best performer so far. I have regularly updated since 8.0 - about every other update prior to that since SONAR XL. Anytime I've had an issue it has usually been attributable to an "iffy" plug, etc. I've had my present DAW for a long while and it is solid and I keep it clean, up to date and dedicated for SONAR.
Regarding personal attacks, I've never (so far) received any, unless I've initiated them myself - in that respect a forum is just a little slice of life. I don't have any intention of being critical of Cakewalk or SONAR except to extend my viewpoint that there seems to be a divergence occurring between the development with Platinum and where "it looks like" other DAWS are headed. (These are outlined in my posts above). As I alluded to previously, this may be a "Grass is greener" viewpoint that only checking them out more closely will confirm.
Cheers - best of luck
 
 

mudgel

Brando

mudgel

Brando

pbognar
So as not to soil another forum thread, I will post some thoughts here.

If Cakewalk is concerned about the ROI of fixing the triplet issues in the SV, I must conclude that the code is unmaintainble, and a full rewrite would be required. If that's the case, then I understand why we may never see any fixes.

If voting for DAW software / features is done with dollars toward purchases or upgrades, it would not be in my best interest to upgrade Sonar at this point. I would be sending the wrong message. I will wait for a release which has the fixes and features which are important to me, or I will move on to something else which emerges as a suitable replacement.

I am dismayed at the years of silence from Cakewalk regarding the SV triplet issue. There is at least one other DAW application out there, where the Devs have indicated that their SV is in development, but will not be present in the next major release, rathther, more likely in the dot release following it. How refreshing.

Seriously thinking about joining Jerry on the DP path. I am concerned that most of the enhancements to Sonar are add-ons, not changes to the core functionality in areas of Midi (especially staff view) but also video. I am paid up with SPlat through early next year, so this is not going to be a knee jerk. It seems to me that Cake can occupy themselves adding and fixing CCC, mix recall, drum replacer, vocal alignment tool, the new .,?!/;'n start page, etc and never get to fixing core functionality, which is more in-line with my needs. (To be fair, Cake have also done a great job of fixing bugs, and the audio engine is excellent.) DP crossgrade is pretty attractive at $395. Would be equal or less than the cost of next year's SPlat membership plus whatever I would pick up for notation (already have Notion and Progression) and Vegas (low end) or other video editor/converter.
DP has a 30 day demo which I am going to try out. Only concern is whether I am going to like the trial enough to want to jump sooner. Hoping Cake have something up their sleeves with respect to video, and midi before end of the year. Even touch is largely abandoned.

Before you go joining Jerry on his journey, you should maybe read his post here on the Sonar forum where he discusses his return and why.
http://forum.cakewalk.com...ar-Again-m3241939.aspx

I already did and replied to him in that thread thanks. But things like small font size are less of a concern to me, as is multiple staff composition. A simple 4-6 part staff view is perfect for me. Jerry's requirements are significantly different and I always suspected he'd struggle given his years of familiarity with Sonar - it boils down to work flow. In my own case my current curiosity about DP8 is largely driven by the fact that most of the enhancements in SPlat are things I am not interested in - the bug fixes have been great, and SPlat runs like a top. That's something. The add-ins and tack-ons less so (in my personal case only).
There is definitely a "greener grass" aspect to my curiosity with DP. I have been loyal to SONAR and Cake for years. It may be as Jerry found, just greener grass - but I intend to find out.
My biggest concern with SPlat is that "enhancements" coming up are for drum replacement, CCC, start view, etc, which didn't even exist in X3 - cake rolls out a new feature, then promptly fixes it in a subsequent month.
How about Touch? - Cake touted it as the next big thing and then promptly abandoned it. I bought a touchscreen monitor and can't do basic touch functions in SPlat that I can do in Windows.
Anyway, nothing about either Studio 1 or Cubase has interested me so far, but DP's emphasis on composition and video seems to be the right emphasis for my needs.
I'll see if the reality matches the hype.
Apologies for the lengthy response.
(Edit) actually Cubase looks awesome but I hate the concept of the dongle. Might be time to rethink that too.

I'm glad you already saw and commented in Jerrys thread. Just wanted to post about it here. No need to apologise to me. I don't see these things as a matter of loyalty as I use the tools I see fit it's my dollar, my choice as it is yours.
I've made my choices.

Thanks Mudgel

denverdrummer
+1 for fixing the Staff view.  I've been using Muse Score for note editing mostly because it's free, and can convert to Midi and import in Sonar, but it would be nice just to do notation score direct in Sonar. []

That's what I do as well. In the "Feedback Loop" Forums I made a suggestion regarding MuseScore two-way integration. There is really no reason for CW to actually code a new staff view, just like they provide plugins for the majority of the instruments and effects functionality.
 
"http://forum.cakewalk.com/Staff-View-Fix-The-Bugs-m3152858.aspx"
 
Maybe we should start a Feedback Loop feature request thread and be explicit.

in light of this long thread it can be easy for the actual details to get lost in the conversation. From my recollection 2 forum members tried to condense the various requests and distil a list of achievable gains as far as urgent fixes and modest enhancements go. Sadly both of those efforts failed buried under the noise and insistence that no one is listening and the dogged belief that nothing will ever get done about anything notation related.
 
Its pretty typical of forums (a slice of life) that the desire to complain can often be greater than the desire to participate in constructive dialog. Before long someone comes along and vents their spleen and sees matters as personal. I'm not pointing any fingers or mentioning names lets just say that while this thread has gone on for 679 posts it could all have been put into far less space.
 
Will this thread bring about a change? I don't know but I can tell you that cakewalk do listen. There have been a number of fixes to notation just recently but instead of accepting them graciously some have chosen to bring up an irrelevant past that really doesn't have any bearing on the present Cakewalk. The cakewalk we have today is a far more responsive and cooperative organisation.
 
I hope there are notation improvements but like many others I've made choices how I handle my needs in this area. Meanwhile I maintain my hope that Cakewalk will improve notation. there is far more going on in Sonar that suits me than any other single DAW and I can do about 95% of what I want/need.

I use the very inexpensive Noteworthy Music Software. Unlike some other programs, it does not transmogrify when exported to midi and imported into Sonar. It is the easiest music software. Users have maximum control over content. Users can write a song with uneven bars. I know. I have done it - not intentionally - not yet, anyway.