• SONAR
  • No notation fixes! (p.69)
2015/06/24 01:07:28
Abheeru
 
Below are two short excerpts from an unfortunately still relevant notation forum exchange dating back 6 YEARS! And there are of course much, much older ones which had led me to totally give up on any meaningful notation updates. 
 
Yet this current gigantic notation post with actual acknowledgment and replies from Cakewalk (OMG!!) gives me a faint hope that something significant might actually be considered and shall I dare say it; implemented.....
 
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"[...] I have often posted on forums and answered Cakewalk surveys just to express my frustration on Cakewalk/Sonar notation before. On the Sonar forum, Gusfmm has published one of the BEST post on notation (below) I have ever read!
 
Why... of course because his clarity but mostly because of the YouTube link. Watching this video is HUGELY PAINFUL as a Sonar user!!! "
 
  
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"[...] Again Bakers, not sure why such fixation about Sibelius and Avid. You keep insinuating that somebody is asking for Sibelius-like functionality built into SONAR. Just to clarify - nobody is asking for that. I thought it could be instructive for some to refer to this video to try to get a flavor for what (at least) I would like to see CW implement:
 
http   ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqDK2Rhpb3g
(Staff view starts at 1:00)

You know what part of the problem is, that this has been for so long neglected, that the cost to develop and build something like this into SONAR is most likely high enough for Cakewalk to be quite reluctant to entertain the idea at this point. Quite a shame."
2015/06/24 09:18:15
Sidroe
As the original poster of this thread, I feel somewhat like an astronaut that left for Mars leaving behind a newborn and returning to find the child has graduated college! I am shocked that this thread has gotten such a huge response. On the other hand, I am appalled that there has been little response from the bakers about fixing SV. I remember a few years ago if you mentioned notation you were shunned for a while. I am so glad to   see this great interest in writing and reading music again. Maybe there is a future for us old dot readers after all!  LOL
2015/06/24 19:57:10
cparmerlee
Sidroe
As the original poster of this thread, ... I am shocked that this thread has gotten such a huge response.



I am not.  What we have is a world outside Cakewalk that is moving toward convergence on many levels.  Inside the Cakewalk (and now Gibson) cocoon, there seems to be far more interest in achieving "the perfect waveform".
 
Nobody stands still.  When the world changes so quickly, if you stand still, you are in fact changed by your surroundings.  With the Sonar emphasis so single-minded on "the waveform" so to speak, Sonar is becoming more and more specialized, only because other products are expanding their sphere of interest.  Some products are more open to real time performance.  Some products are more open to the full spectrum of composing/orchestration, including a notation-centric work flow.
 
I share your disappointment in the lack of commitment or even commentary from Cakewalk.  It is reasonable that a person should interpret that silence as a statement that the company intends to continue in its specialized role, a shrinking niche.
 
But to be fair, this thread sends many mixed messages.  One might read many of the posts and conclude that the only thing needed is better handling of triplets.  I think the problem is really bigger than that, needing a more strategic response.
2015/06/24 20:07:15
pbognar
cparmerlee
Sidroe
As the original poster of this thread, ... I am shocked that this thread has gotten such a huge response.



But to be fair, this thread sends many mixed messages.  One might read many of the posts and conclude that the only thing needed is better handling of triplets.  I think the problem is really bigger than that, needing a more strategic response.




Ahh, but on a purely technical level, if they can fix the triplet issue, it means that anything is possible (at least within the staff view).
2015/06/24 20:21:51
Abheeru
Would appreciate anyone expaining why the Youtube link in my previous post (#681) not published?
Thanks,
2015/06/24 20:26:52
mettelus
Links will only post if a user's post count is more than 25, I believe. You can get around that by inserting spaces into it (so it doesn't appear as a hyperlink).
2015/06/24 20:46:03
Abheeru
Thanks mettelus:
http   ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqDK2Rhpb3g
2015/06/24 21:25:08
cparmerlee
Abheeru
http   ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqDK2Rhpb3g



That's very interesting.  And remember that Steinberg/Yamaha is also working on a major new notation program that goes beyond the Cubase capabilities.  The degree of integration between the new program and Cubase is unclear at this stage, but there are many obvious opportunities for making the programs seamless.  That video talks about the work flow that begins with composition in the DAW.  There is also the opposite workflow that begins with composition in the notation program and then uses DAW capability to tweak the MIDI for the most realistic playback.
2015/06/24 21:54:20
jsg
Given the astonishing level of accelerated development that computer science and technology has undergone over the past 32 years (MIDI first hit the scene in 1983) I think that DAWS are incredible tools, all of them, and we should get some perspective.   It's not really what DAW you work in, it's what you do with it and how you do it. 
 
All DAWs do three things:  1) record, edit and playback MIDI, 2) record, edit and playback audio and 3) handle plugins-- instrument and signal processing.  That's about it. You can have the best DAW, the finest outboard gear, etc. and still make crappy music that has little nuance, depth, clarity, punch, power, groove, drive, beauty, sense of the sacred, sense of the ancient, sense of the cosmic, catchiness, dreaminess, heroic passages, contemplative passages, humor, originality, authenticity and/or the numerous other qualities and values that cause us to love music so much.   There are no perfect tools because nothing humans make is perfect, as we ourselves are imperfect.  The digital musical tools we have nowadays are incredible musical instruments.  If one is always hoping for the next-best-thing-around-the-corner thinking that will help them make better music, I think that is a delusion.  Better recordings?  Maybe, depending upon the ears, talent and skills of the producer and engineer.  But better music?  That come from living better, from thinking better, from feeling better and from, I hate to say it, from the same source that honesty, truth, love, compassion and all good vibrations come from. Each person gets to decide what that source is and what it means to them.
 
I've had numerous composition and classical theory students who are computer engineers, both in software and hardware.  They are usually excellent students, always curious, sincere, motivated and eager to learn.  I cannot imagine how difficult and detailed writing a DAW must be.  It's not just the number of lines of code, but the thought, creativity, design, planning, testing and decisions that went into it.  And for what purpose?  To serve music!!   What a great way to use one's computer talents.  If we could only get all the nuclear bomb programmers to change their roles and start making software to advance the arts, humanities and social justice, then maybe science and technology won't be in the hands of the dark forces that may screw it up for all of us.
 
The triplet issue may, or may not, ever be dealt with, I don't really know.  I do know that when I am inspired and composing, it's a minor detail that has no impact on how I write.   I too have been critical of Sonar's notational limits, but in some ways Sonar's notation editor is quite good, compared to the others, for example  the design:  letting the composer/orchestrator/arranger see the staves across nearly the entire screen is something I took for granted.  It makes composing less about the tool and more about the ideas.  Also, the scroll bar.  Some notation editors don't have them, Sonar does and it is often the fastest way to get 100 measures forward or back.  Both of these features really help those who work with a lot of instruments or write pieces longer than 2-3 minutes.  
 
 
 
 
2015/06/24 23:30:16
mudgel
I always enjoy your posts Jerry. You have a way of getting to the heart of a matter.

I think technology allows us to acquire a sense that we can do more than our talents would otherwise allow.

Today anyone can cobble together a bunch of sounds and call it an accomplishment. An achievement unattainable before the age of electronics. When I consider what can already be done, will we eventually feature fill the human element out of it all. I want a talent button right next to the make a hit for me button.
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