Correct me if i'm wrong, but the software that is now being called NOTION was a Cakewalk product back in the '90. I've always wondered if there was some kind of term in the contract about NOT to have the right to improve Sonar's staff view un the future... :-S
 

In the spirit of being totally honest, though... I will admit that there are no current developments to the Staff View in progress.

 
I use staff view to enter chords for MIDI arpeggiators. I remember some time in Sonar version 7 or 8, Staff was very useful, and then something changed- probably when they introduced the tools bar. I can not remember what exactly features were taken away, but it changed Staff view from useful to not useful. If we could have that older version available, that would really help. I do not need it to be able to use the general tools bar. But the basic functionality to enter simple notes in staff or fix MIDI melody line or chords should be available.

sergiobklyn
+1,987,348,329,134+1
 

 All one has to do is google and you can find many of them jumped to Cubase who felt a staff view is a priority.  I know people on this forum don't like hearing that and the work around using Rewire is an annoyance.
 Finale, Sibelius and Notion are separate apps designed more for composition instead of production.  There is a difference.  
 If a DAW has a certain weakness you use another one.  I doubt many people who use virtual orchestra instruments run them in Pro Tools from scratch.  
 

kitekrazy1

sergiobklyn
+1,987,348,329,134+1
 

 All one has to do is google and you can find many of them jumped to Cubase who felt a staff view is a priority.  I know people on this forum don't like hearing that and the work around using Rewire is an annoyance.
 Finale, Sibelius and Notion are separate apps designed more for composition instead of production.  There is a difference.  
 If a DAW has a certain weakness you use another one.  I doubt many people who use virtual orchestra instruments run them in Pro Tools from scratch.  
 

Probably true.  But the event list in Cubase is not color coded, which means patch and controller information is not distinct from notes.  Editing is more difficult when the eye has to find important details that don't stand out.  Sonar has the best event list; DP's event list is so small you can get eyestrain just looking at for a few minutes.   I put up with Sonar's staff view for numerous reasons, but apparently, if you look at this thread, quite a few people want staff view bug fixes and improvements.   I suppose the "bottom-line" is more important to CW than the integrity of the software.  What else can I conclude when year after year they give the same response? 
 
"We'll get to the staff view in another future update". 
 
How many times have we heard that from CW?
 
Jerry
www.jerrygerber.com
 

I think that the notation side of Sonar was sold off as Overture so my guess is that the right to change the code went with it (as well as staff).

other companies have invested in notation.. avid&sibelius steinberg hired the unemployed sibelius team, presonus bought notion.

Which leaves Finale as the only real possible deal maker/collaborator.
Unless cakewalk consider using Noteflight staff (Boston based but purchased by Hal Leonard).

I recall that John presented Cakewalk with a request after a thread debating this got quite fiery a number of years back.

We are now in 2015 and are still using pre 2000 notation editor.

I would like to have my note icons back.. (with touch screen that would be great)

I would like also some drum map dev integration with sample libraries' articulations.

Fact is, I never print scores and hardlu use my copy of Sibelius, but use the capable midi settings of Sonar to create mockups.

I suppose will always look with envy at developments at other companies.
But still harbour this daft feeling that every october/november that something might improve.

P.S. Chord track - excellent idea!
P.S. I would pay £100, £200 or whatever for more staff improvements

I would also be very happy to see staff view improvements. I find it easiest to get an overall grasp of the harmonic structure of a piece when I view/write it in standard notation.

skinnybones lampshade
I would also be very happy to see staff view improvements. I find it easiest to get an overall grasp of the harmonic structure of a piece when I view/write it in standard notation.

And printed out it's sure easier to read than anything else.
 

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mike_mccue
It seems to me that one of the aspects of DAW work flow that leads many people to avoid using staff view is the fact that it is so difficult to lay a tempo map over free played music.
 
When humans play from a staff they don't always try match a static metronome.
 
You can't make useful staff notation out of human performed music until it is aligned to a tempo based grid system. 
 
I think that, twenty plus years after the invention of DAW, an attempt to lay a tempo map over free play music is still a primitive and unrewarding exercise in frustration. I feel this has led a lot of people to succumb to other more convenient ways to get sound out of their DAW.
 
I think the difficulty of turning the music you play on your keyboard, or other controller into staff notation substantially reduces the percentage of people who use staff view in any DAW. Lots of people can read music but only a few of them are patient enough to use it with a DAW.
 
It may not be obvious how this relates to people who want to write in staff view, but I believe there is a relationship between the inability of most DAWs to aid in tempo mapping over free play music, and any subsequent editing of that music in a staff view.
 
I think the popularity and celebration of grid based music has been a convenient distraction that has allowed every DAW provider to avoid acknowledging how poorly their products serve someone who wants to use a flexible tempo and grid system along side freely played emotionally charged music.
 
I do a lot of work on a simple H:M:S timeline, using the DAW as a glorified tape machine. As soon as you abandon the use of a M:B:T timeline any hope of integrating staff view in a DAW project is lost. 
 
I'd love to have great tools that allow for easy integration of subtle tempo changes and all the power that grid based editing, including staff view editing, offers.
 
 

This above comment really strikes home at the difference between composition and improvisation.  When you turn on a tape recorder, or a DAW, and just play into it, unless you are able to follow a metronome precisely, though the music will be recorded faithfully, the actually metric, rhythmic and tempo values will be problematic,  this is why quantizing the score becomes important.  When I was doing music for computer games, that's the way I'd work, I would essentially improvise and record, improvise and record, building up tracks to create a finished piece.  I didn't need a written score. Though this method does involve making decisions, I don't consider it composition in the sense of actually writing down music in detail on manuscript paper, in a program like Sibelius, or in a DAW.  If you really understand tempo maps, and you think like a conductor, Sonar allows great flexibility in terms of changing tempos by tiny or large amounts, anywhere in the measure, it handles slowing down and speeding up tempos very well (over many measures or just within a measure)  and this in no way is limited or impacted by working in the staff view.  It really all depends on how you think about music and how well-trained you are in composition.  
 
Though the staff view has numerous issues, I don't find tempo control to be one of them.  I don't find composing in the staff view much different than composing on manuscript paper, except one main difference:  In Sonar I can hear my ideas immediately. 
 
JG
www.jerrygerber.com
 

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