I think Sonar will be overlooked for the educational system because of staff view..., Ive worked in education for 18yrs and even judged composition competitions on a national level.

On music courses and individual sessions with teachers I have run over the years they have really impressed with Sonar and its abilities until they get to SV view.. I love Sonar but when I show the SV view I get that sad feeling of having to admit to them its limitations.. or I lose credibility..

With the arrival on X1 I couldnt recommend it further tbh.. because kids need to see the note icons. - because they have different names in different languages. and the icons are universal.......

here's a chat I had with a teacher (who recently became the local university music teacher training officer) who will over the next twenty years have a massive influence on how and what is taught.

"how do you select note values - semiquavers". "oh thats easy" I say "just right click here and select Sixteenth". they reply "sixteenth?, shouldnt it be called Semiquaver??" "is there an easy way to select it?". "Where are the symbols/icons?"

"Ok... the keyboard shortcut are handy too". I say. " press shift alt 6" (or whatever it is). (She goes on them to note most pupils want place music in straight away rather learning even more keyboard shortcuts and refers to special needs)

I then state you can change the keybind to something memorable but by then she lost interest and even start saying refering to Logic on pc (yeah some still refer to it). that that was easier to use!!

in a recent conversation I had with her she purchasef Cubase... stating that Sonar was easier but Sv was a dealbreaker..

frustrating isnt a word that truly describes my feelings about this!!

Being Windows-only is a deal-breaker with many educational systems whom Apple seeded with Macs. That's why I think Cakewalk needs to look outside the United States.
 
I truly appreciate your trying, though, and understand your frustration. And you may be the only person here who understands mine.
 
Remember that CW didn't even have an "in" to the educational market until after the acquisition. It takes time to build those relationships, and I'm sure you're aware of the bureaucracies involved in school system purchases. Cakewalk has no person dedicated to pursuing the educational market. Resources.
 
I'm working on a different approach to education now but why even bother mentioning it. If people don't read what I say, it makes no sense to waste time writing. Anyone who translates my example of what a solution looks like into "Well Anderton says we have to get 10,000 Chinese to buy SONAR to get improvements in staff view" tells me all I need to know about where my time is better spent, and it's not here. After all this talk about priorities, I think I need to exercise some of my own. I greatly appreciate the few who have made thoughtful, constructive, solution-oriented comments, and I have collected those.
 

Elffin . . . that's nice to hear from the point of view of an educator, we so often think this software is just for bedroom producers, professional music producers, audio engineers, songwriter / composers . . . but I guess there's a lot of music educators that rely on staff view to teach music. Back in the day, I can't imagine when I learned about music and music theory that I could ever have made sense of it from a Piano Roll View type system, and the staff notation was central to being able to play with other accomplished musicians. There's a whole generation (or two) of rock and rollers that learned to play by ear, in order to play in bands etc . . . but from a modern composer's point of view: staff notation still seems the most efficient way to play music with larger groups of musicians.
 
Things are changing in the world, especially with technology, moving ahead quickly, so I wonder if staff notation will disappear and not be needed in pop music, though it's a long way from disappearing in classical music circles, and hopefully also from music education circles.

I think the OP was just trying to inject a little humor into this rather heated discussion, with his quip about talking to the Chinese.  Like my own feeble and unnoticed attempts...

Anderton
Cakewalk does the math: (($100 x 10,000) - $50,000 for duplication, packaging, and shipping) = $950,000. Now, THAT meets the three requirements:
 
1. Enough people want it.
2. It will bring in significant revenue.
3. The significant revenue can pay for the resources needed to implement the changes.
 
It's just that simple. That's how the real world works...and don't think Cakewalk isn't looking for these kinds of opportunities.

OK Craig.
What you are saying is that there is not enough profit in fixing SV. Cake looks at how many new users it would bring vs. cost to implement. Cake has done the math and it is not do-able. Fine. Just admit it already so people that need SV can look elsewhere.
Other DAWs in the same price range seem to do it.  Yes, Cake is small , economy of scale etc. 
We as consumers perform a similar cost vs. benefit analysis when paying for a service or product. I do not really care about what a company's problems are and this is what management is supposedly for. I care about the value of the product I am paying for. I try to get the best value for my hard earned money.
I am very disappointed so far this year in Cakewalk. The new (not a subscription) model has panned out just as I expected. Unless something really, really, wonderful and amazing happens before Jan, I will not be renewing for 2016. 
I have recently been looking at other DAWs and have found that one in particular meets my needs much more closely than Sonar and costs about $50 more retail. Their SV blows me away as does the overall professional look and feel of the software. Even if they did nothing to their DAW in the next 10 years, I do not see Sonar approaching their level in that time frame given Cake's recent performance.
Let's mention the 500 lb gorilla in the room.
Face it, Sonar needs a major rewrite. Yes, Cake stuck a new GUI on top of an aging codebase and called it X-series/Platinum.
Even simple features seem to be getting harder to implement. MIDI needs major work. The audio interface is finicky. Latency is not that great. Anyone with serious programming experience can see that it is time for a careful look at revising the model and a ground up rewrite.
If Cake wants to play in the big leagues, a significant investment is required that may not see a return for a long time. I had hoped that the Gibson aquisition would provide this opportunity but it does not look promising.
I am sorry that other DAWs have 10 times the people Cake has working on staff view or any other area for that matter. That is not my problem. That is Cake management's problem.
 
There is another way to look at your Chinese educator example. Instead of focusing on the absolute bottom line, focus on the fact that this deal could provide full or partial funding to make your product better, more competitive and more desirable to a wider market... even though you may not recoup every last cent or make a profit on this particular deal.
 
So paraphrasing your statement...
It's just that simple. That's how the real world works...and don't think I am not  looking for other kinds of opportunities.

Craig, I did not mean to upset you with the LOL on that post. It just struck me that all this talk and contributing ideas for several years now would be simply settled by getting the Chinese to show interest in buying more of America's goods! As if they don't own enough of America as it is.
I do not laugh at you, my friend! I have had nothing but respect for you for many years. I did not mean for this to become mean-spirited at all and I deeply apologize if it appeared that way.

I would also like to say that I don't think that anyone has contributed as much time and effort on our behalves to get Sonar where it needs to be than Craig Anderton! At the end of the day, Cakewalk will do what it needs to in order to stay in business.
I applaud the effort that Craig puts in to trying to walk that tightrope between business and art. We are very fortunate to have him in our corner.

Anderton
Being Windows-only is a deal-breaker with many educational systems whom Apple seeded with Macs. That's why I think Cakewalk needs to look outside the United States.
 
I truly appreciate your trying, though, and understand your frustration. And you may be the only person here who understands mine.
 
Remember that CW didn't even have an "in" to the educational market until after the acquisition. It takes time to build those relationships, and I'm sure you're aware of the bureaucracies involved in school system purchases. Cakewalk has no person dedicated to pursuing the educational market. Resources.
 
I'm working on a different approach to education now but why even bother mentioning it. If people don't read what I say, it makes no sense to waste time writing. Anyone who translates my example of what a solution looks like into "Well Anderton says we have to get 10,000 Chinese to buy SONAR to get improvements in staff view" tells me all I need to know about where my time is better spent, and it's not here. After all this talk about priorities, I think I need to exercise some of my own. I greatly appreciate the few who have made thoughtful, constructive, solution-oriented comments, and I have collected those.
 

Europe would be a dead end. It's "Macentric".  Most programs used in education are notation software and Pro Tools.  It's really not a market to waste time trying to get.  

Anderton

kennywtelejazz

Sidroe
So, we have to talk the Chinese school system in to buying Sonar to get the SV fixed?  No problem!  LOL!

Hey I'm down , here's some Chinese Rock I just did in SONAR ….
https://soundcloud.com/guitarist-kenny-wilson/midi-guitar-moods-v-2-0 
maybe I can make a few bucks on the side and get somebody better than me to mix it 
 
Kenny

Hey, I like that. I appreciate someone who prefers contributing over mocking.

Hello Craig ,
 
Regarding my clip , it may be a little more " Crapanese " in a few places as opposed to being real authentic Chinese….
 
thank you for the comment  
 
I have read all your recent posts in this thread multiple times . Thanks for going into the details and bringing to light the inner workings of how a company such as Cakewalk does business ,  also some of the examples of what the other software companies are up against ….it seems to be a tough market and a tough gig for everybody .
 
At this point in time I have decided to change my stance and point of view ….
I don't happen to like being argumentitive , if I have happened to have said anything that may have offended any one in this thread or placed them in a position of feeling attacked .
I do offer my sincere amends publicly here right now .
 
When it comes to my personal views and how I choose to live my life I have found it to be a tough nut to balance expectations …..
As a human , I feel we all have them …in my case when a reasonable expectation crosses over the line and becomes an unreasonable expectation it signals to me that I may be doing something wrong ….
Although I may have fell off the grid musically some time ago  and I may have subjected myself to having to live very modestly due to personal finances …
I hold dear and steadfast  to my principles and ideals….
I feel that it is very wrong for me to criticize anybody for any reason unless they have asked me to point out a few things to them ….Also , I would never do it in a public arena /  forum ….
 
The people that have helped me the most in my life regardless of the area they were helping me in planted seeds ..
Many of these people throughout the years that have tried to help me have never gotten the opportunity to have seen the results of their efforts directed at me bear fruit….
I suppose a few happened to know that there were dealing with "a perfectionist with an inferiority complex "  up front…
 
For those of you that may be asking how does this apply ?
 
imho,  , Creativity is Creativity . Who am I to judge anyone else's creative process ? or how they choose to use their resources . 
 
In this case regarding the staff of the company of Cakewalk I am talking about a collective group of creative individuals who have joined forces to serve a need by providing a superior DAW product  ….
For me to criticize them unjustly is for me to attack them as individuals and as a whole ….
In my book it would be no different than a Cakewalk staff member saying " Hey Kenny you have had our software products for 10 years , when are you gonna learn how to use it correctly  ? a lot of the music you come up with sounds like $hitt " 
Or another musician saying to me " Hey K..you have been playing guitar for so many years , when are you gonna learn how to play Stella " 
 
As ridicules as my examples may sound on one level from my perspective , I'm just trying to put it out there for anybody that can read between the lines ….
 
I offer you my sincere appology if I happened to have said anything that may have offended you
 
Kenny 
 
 
 
 

I prefer to compose in staff view. I would simply like to be able to choose eighth note triplets from the drop down and have them appear on the screen as eighth note triplets. If this is too much to ask then so be it. I honestly don't need a reason why it can't be done just a statement that it can't be done. I have not tried this in Plat only X3. I will try it in Plat as soon as I can. If this is user error on my part or a configuration issue please someone set me straight. It worked in pro audio 9 and Sonar 8.5 but does not work in the X series as far as I can tell. Plat is loaded on a laptop sitting in my office and I will look at it on Monday.