Brando

trtzbass

rebel007
Cake, are you really listening, there must be some way to end this thread.

I have a proposal
It's fair to think that Cakewalk needs to direct efforts and attention to the areas that make the brand thrive (read: make money)
It's also easy to imagine that people might be quick to say "Oh I NEED a score editor" then flake out of the situation.
How about we accept that a functional score editor is going to be a paid for add - on and then Cakewalk starts a crowdfunding campaign?
We all put the money where our mouth is and everyone is a winner.
Just a thought!

Just curious, as it is difficult to "know" someone on a public forum. Did you pay for lifetime updates, for example? Do you use MIDI or are you only/primarily audio? Would you have paid "extra" for some of the core functions of SPlat from the last year - mix recall, ARA tempo sync, drum replacer, for example?
No disrespect intended but I find it is often those who don't give a rat's derrière about notation who say we don't need it, or it should cost more, or more often "buy something else".
Well, I bought the lifetime updates, AND I bought something else - NOTION and PROGRESSION. Just bought the new Reaper (with integrated notation).
Truthfully if Cakewalk said they will integrate a notation editor into SPlat, but it will be an "extra" (non-core) bolt-on, I would buy it. But I wonder if all users in a similar position faced with the same question about a key piece of the daw they love would honestly say the same thing. We're all customers, like it or not, notation IS (at least for now) a piece of the core program.

That's a legitimate question.
Here's where I am now: I have been paying monthly for Splat ever since they adopted the subscription model. Before that I was using Producer. I LOVE Sonar and I'd rather use it instead of something else, but, because of my line of work I need a fully functional, versatile, user friendly score editor, and it has to be integrated in the DAW. I might need to churn out 20 charts in two days and importing / exporting midi files for transcription / reduction of the parts is a pain. I bought Notion and like it, but (I won't go into details) it is an external element to the DAW and it's very disruptive to my flow. Also, it takes way less time and effort to write string arrangements on staff than using the piano roll. And doing that on staff view is a pain. To be happy I'd need something like notion, with technique switching and functioning dynamic markings but integrated into Sonar and yes I'd gladly have paid for Drum Replacement because I use it quite a bit. My workflow is 50 - 50 audio and MIDI BTW
And bottom line, this is where I stand now: I have the money for the lifetime updates ready to go, but in all honesty, I'm just waiting for someone at Cakewalk to just say "yes we are going to overhaul the staff view" and I'd be pulling the trigger faster than you can say "Notion has a bug and crashes if you use Focusrite".
It is a big deal for me, but I do understand that a company has priorities; hence my proposition.

Funny, I use an old Focusrite Saffire 6 USB on my laptop rig with Notion and have never had a problem!

Sidroe
Funny, I use an old Focusrite Saffire 6 USB on my laptop rig with Notion and have never had a problem!

If you lookup the Presonus knowledge base, you'll see that may users had trouble. Their fix was to use a beta version of a new driver that apparently fixes the problem for the Saffires. Too bad I have a Forte

brundlefly
 

Helene Kolpakova
I recorded the track almost entirely from my keyboard. With minor edits in the piano roll. And you guessed it, the current notation is a total mess. It's absolutely useless as it is right now.

It can probably be improved greatly with the right settings, and some additional editing in the PRV. Here are the main things you will need to do to get the piece to display well as notation:
 
- Record the piece to a click or align SONAR's timeline to it after the fact using Set Measure/Beat At Now (nothing will work as expected if the MIDI isn't closely aligned to the timeline with the correct meter(s) set).
- Manually split left- and right-hand parts of the original track to two new tracks, and designate those two tracks the bass and treble clefs of a grand staff in the Layout section of the Staff View.
- Quantize note start times of these two 'notation' tracks to 100% at the appropriate resolution.
- Set the Display Resolution appropriately, and enable Fill Durations and Trim Durations.
- In areas that still don't display as expected, you will probably need to to do some manual trimming/filling of durations in the PRV to get the desired result.
 
Depending on the style of the composition, there may still be things that SONAR can't get right,  but if it's a 'simple piece' as you described, you should be able to get a serviceable result.

It's nice with workarounds and all.
But underneath suggestions there is compromized art - what and how you play.
Daw should be enabler of art - not disabler.
 
Some proper notation minimum requirements(now not fulfilled in Sonar staff view):
a) handling of midi into notation must be kept separate, not compromizing how you play or anything. Any quantization needed to make it readable is separate system, and all transparent to user. So midi and visual notation are kept as two systems internally.
b) handling of any tuplet category like triplets - again not compromizing what you play.
You should be able to play on 1st and 3rd on triplets, or you leave out most usable beats.
 
Looking for decent notation I ended up buying Cubase Pro, and done that I also started using it for everything and have notation integrated. I looked at 5-6 different separate notation software as well, but total solution was Cubase.
 
I think Mac version is a smart move overall for Sonar in near future, but after that notation is among the very tools that needs getting up to standard. If a carpenters hammer is pointy, it's not much work getting done.

Sidroe
WOW! I started this thread with no idea it would take on a life of it's own. I was STUNNED to see it is back but saddened that it made a comeback! I almost posted a new thread when there was so much hub-bub about the BIG announcement, hoping that a fix for notation was part of that event. I thought better of that because this thread got so huge and the responses got so heated sometimes.
Oh, well. I have given up on that fix coming down the road anytime, much less soon! I hope I am wrong!

I appreciate your effort on our behalf.  A good MIDI+Staff editor was important to me and one of Craig's post mentioned that this is one of Cubase's strengths.  After 4 months of using Cubase I have almost stopped using Sonar completely.  The Cubase notation isn't a full implementation by any means but suits my songwriting needs and it even automatically creates chord notation from a MIDI track.  That said, Sonar has a lot of good features and not everyone uses notation in their workflow so is probably a case of "horses for courses".
 
Cheers
 
 

At this point, I've come to accept that notation (Staff View), and to a lesser extent automation editing, remains a limited priority with Sonar. It has certainly received little TLC during the membership period and years before. So in view of being a "lifer" I've lowered my expectations and I'm currently looking a Notion and possibly Cubase for those needs.
 
I can actually believe that my uses of Sonar places me in a minority, and Cakewalk has to do what their customers in general benefit from. I'm sure Analytics will prove that no one uses notation, anyway

Analytics will prove that I don't use the Staff View.
 Which is why many folks are worried about analytics. I would LOVE for Staff View to be improved. If I could print out lead sheets or horn parts, piano parts that look like proper sheet music, that would be great. As it is today too much effort is required. It is easier to chart things by hand.

Base 57
Analytics will prove that I don't use the Staff View.
 Which is why many folks are worried about analytics. I would LOVE for Staff View to be improved. If I could print out lead sheets or horn parts, piano parts that look like proper sheet music, that would be great. As it is today too much effort is required. It is easier to chart things by hand.

But there will always be notes!  Music and technology will change, but there will always be notation....
 
Exhibit A:  One of the most quoted and borrowed from piece of music in film and pop!
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3izbPKZCc84
 
This piece is about 100 years old.  It survives, despite all the changes in Technology because of the NOTES and notation. In another 100 years it will still be performed and stolen from and quoted. If Sonar wants to survive the next wave of tech changes it needs to grab the common thread first.  Notation.
 
 

Would be interesting to see the analytics... I certainly use the notation view, and it needs love  - no doubt. IMO it doesn't need to be a major revamp, just fix the bugs & give a few extra formatting options (e.g. being able to change the font size of the chord notation would be nice)
 
I have tried to use the Lyrics view, and that is a total exercise in frustration. It's buggy beyond belief, with very unpredictable results, and the Undo function will often either do nothing or end up inserting new events into the event list  - totally bizarre - which you then can't undo. Someone at cakewalk should actually try using the lyric view - the shame of having something so buggy in a released product would surely spur some action!
 
BTW I tend to use the Staff / Lyric view at practice sessions - displaying the music / lyrics from a backing track is great for everyone to practice with as we record our session. I'm just the poor sucker who has to try and create the track! 

A new issue has cropped up with the latest (June, 2016 and some earlier) releases of Platinum.  When inputting notes on the staff with a mouse, the grid doesn't work at all, for example if you choose a quarter-note, and place it on the staff, if you're a bit off the quarter-note will be place 60 ticks from where you want it.  This is because the snap-to grid is stuck on 60 ticks (with a timebase of 480 this is a 32nd note).  It should work so that whatever note value you choose, the snap-to function follows that value, i.e. you select a 16th note and the snap-to grid moves to 120.  This bug makes it hard, not impossible) to always place notes exactly where you want them.  With rolling updates I expect this to be fixed soon...
 
Jerry
www.jerrygerber.com