I want to control and syncronize the fader automation of an outboard analog console using Sonar.  I want the Track Faders and Console View in Sonar to be syncronized with the analog console.  However, I don't want Sonar to actually adjust it's analog output levels as the faders change within Sonar.
 
Can Sonar just run automation and syncronize the faders without actually adjusting the level of the analog outputs?
 
The outboard console will be doing the level control, that is why I need Sonar to keep the output levels at unity all time, dispite what the Sonar faders are indicating.

I'm not sure I'm grasping exactly what you are trying to do but I think the answer is no, or at least maybe not. Sonar's level will always be controlled by it's faders. 
 
I guess I am now curious as to why you'd want an analog mixer's controls to show the same levels to those indicated inside Sonar by actually be different. My system can mix OTB, although I don't much, but when I do use it to control levels I don't need necessarily need that reflected inside of Sonar.
 
I'm not sure how your system works but on mine (which doesn't have its own automation) I could disassociate it as a control surface which would allow me to mix through it on a track by track basis and any level adjustments I make aren't going to be reflected in Sonar.
 
If it had automation it would follow it and not reflect that in Sonar but then it wouldn't be sync'd to Sonar's fader movements either so the answer is no you can't have Sonar's faders follow your console without them affecting output..... but yes you can mix OTB on your system completely, it's just Sonar won't reflect the levels of your console.
 
You can't have both, levels not affected and fader movement followed. It's one or the other.
 
HTH.

It sounds like you want the automation to be shown on the tracks, but you want an outboard Mixer to control the volume. If you have the monitors connected to the outboard mixer, here's an idea:
 
Bounce the entire project to a stereo track, but keep all the other tracks in the project. Select a hardware output as the output for the stereo track you bounced the entire mix to, connect that output of your audio interface to a stereo channel on your outboard mixer. Mute all the other tracks in the project.
 
If there is automation on the volume of tracks it will be showing when you playback the project, but the volume of the stereo mixed track will be the only volume heard, and you can control that volume from your outboard mixer, if your monitors are connected to the outboard mixer.
 
Is that helpful?
 
 

I need something to control the automation.  My outboard console has moving faders, but no usable automation controller.  I would like to use Sonar to control the automation through MIDI.  This way the automation info is always stored with the audio project.
 
I suppose it is fine that I can disassociate and not have Sonar reflect any of the fader movements of the outboard console.  However, can it control the automation for me?  Will it work with a standard protocol, like Mackie HUI or something else?  Any ideas on how Sonar would work with the automation mode switches, provided those modes are transmittable as data?

jgirard1
I need something to control the automation.  My outboard console has moving faders, but no usable automation controller.  I would like to use Sonar to control the automation through MIDI.  This way the automation info is always stored with the audio project.

I need a better idea of how the two are interfacing. Is the audio coming from Sonar and then going into the mixer? If so, then here's what you can do.
 
Suppose you have two ADAT light pipes coming from your computer interface. They appear as outputs to Sonar and now you have 16 outputs.
 
Add a Send to 16 Sonar tracks and set them pre-fader. Send their outputs to the ADAT light pipe outputs. Now you can use Sonar's faders, but not affect the audio going from the computer to the mixer via the ADAT light pipe.

I'm still a little confused on exactly what you mean.
 
If you want to use your console faders to control and write automation within Sonar that is relatively straightforward.
 
You can use ACT or better still "Mackie Mode" if your console supports the Mackie protocol. Make sure it is installed first as a MIDI device, Preferences---->MIDI---->Devices, and then as a control surface Preferences--->MIDI--->Control Surfaces.  One advantage of Mackie mode over ACT is that motorised faders will respond to Sonar faders in Mackie mode. In ACT mode they don't, ACT is a one way communication protocol, the Mackie protocol is two way.
 
Once that is done your faders on the console will correspond to Sonar's track and buss faders in banks of 8 or multiples of 8 depending on exactly how it is set up. There should be some way to shift bank focus on your controller, if not use the coloured WAI (Where Am I) strip that appears beside the tracks in TV or beneath the strips in Console View.
 
All you have to do then is arm the tracks for "automation write" and move faders on your console while playing back the project.
 
Fader movement will be recorded as automation. Behaviour will depend on the "Write mode" chosen in the "Track Properties". Find that using the "Track tab" of the Inspector.
 
If you want to mix OTB at the same time that may vary by system but on mine I can only mix 16 channels at a time (because that's all I have on the console - an Allen & Heath ZED-R16 btw)
 
Here's how I do that I guess your set up will be something similar.
 
Assign 16 track (or buss) outputs within Sonar to the 16 individual channels on the ZED.
 
Sonar track 1 output--->ZED channel 1
Sonar track 2 output--->ZED channel 2
etc. etc.
 
Set up the routing as required on the console. I can choose to have the audio come into the console just after the pres and run the full strip or have it come in post EQ, so it just uses the aux sends (for outboard FX) & faders.
 
Now the console is processing each of Sonar's tracks/busses.
 
From here there are choices.
 
Re-record back into Sonar, Sonar needs to be in record mode rather than playback for this to happen though, or record to an external device using the console main or aux outputs.
 
There are further choices if re-recording back into Sonar. Either on an individual track basis back a new lane on the track being processed, or a completely different track by setting the Sonar track inputs accordingly. Alternatively record the summed stereo two track on the console L-R buss by selecting that as an input to a Sonar track.
 
Obviously there is some configuration to do on the console as well but that will be specific to your set up. A little more info on that might help if you need more advice/help.

I'd like to make sure we are clear what we are talking about here.
 
"Automation means to record the movement of a fader, knob, or other control so that the next time you play your project, that control moves automatically."
 
"SONAR has a very sophisticated automation system that lets you record fader moves and parameter changes with a mouse or control surface during playback in real time, or edit automation graphically offline."
 
For you to be able to use the faders on your outboard console to control the faders in SONAR, your outboard Console must have the feature to use its faders, and knobs as a control surface, and for the faders on your outboard console to move in sync with the faders in SONAR your console must have motorized faders support (which you say your console has), and your console must have support for a feature such as the proprietary Mackie communication protocol. If your console has support for both of these features, go to the Control Surfaces area in Preferences and set up your Console to be used as a control surface in SONAR, as FastBikerBoy guided you to do above.
 
"My outboard console has moving faders, but no usable automation controller.  I would like to use Sonar to control the automation through MIDI."  
 
In SONAR, you do the automation by enabling the Automation Write button for a track/s, playing back the project, and moving the slider/s in SONAR with the mouse or use a control surface you have setup to control sliders in SONAR. If your console has support for the feature such as the proprietary Mackie communication protocol, and you have setup your control surface in SONAR to use one of the Mackie Control options (the proprietary Mackie communication protocol), when you playback the project the automation you have recorded in SONAR will cause the faders on your outboard console to move in sync with the automation of faders in SONAR. This is the way automation works. And of course MIDI In/Out cables must be connected from the console to the PC.
 
If your console does not have motorized faders and if it does not use the Proprietary Mackie communication protocol, the faders on your console will not move in sync with the faders in SONAR. That is, the automation recorded in SONAR will not control the faders on your outboard console. The faders on your outboard console will not move in sync with the automation of faders in SONAR.
 
I hope this helps.

Thank you guys for the responses.  You are all pretty much right on target about what I am trying to do.  I believe each of your answers helped me make some final conclusions.  There are some pretty good ideas collectively that I feel will allow me to meet my objectives.  It sounds like I will be able to get these two things to play nice together.
 
I have not dug into this yet, but is there a driver or other built-in option that will allow Sonar to begin transmitting the Mackie HUI compatible automation data straight away on MIDI, or will I need to install a driver from a compatible control surface first?  I am currently using Sonar 8.5 for now to test this idea.

jgirard1
 
I have not dug into this yet, but is there a driver or other built-in option that will allow Sonar to begin transmitting the Mackie HUI compatible automation data straight away on MIDI, or will I need to install a driver from a compatible control surface first? 

Just install the driver/s for your control surface, and if it's got Mackie HUI compatibility it will work once you setup your control surface in SONAR and record some automation.
 
Set up your control surface via Preferences--->MIDI--->Control Surfaces (as FastBikerBoy pointed out).