skinnybones lampshade
 
I do have one question: Is there a certain sampler that you have in mind that this would go especially simply/quickly with?
 

If you wish to stay with bundled synths, the easiest may be Session Drummer, the most flexible would be Rapture.

skinnybones lampshade
Wow, Craig Anderton, thanks a bunch! I'd have never come up with that, especially the part about bringing the vocal clip into a sampler instead of transposing it up an octave just like that.
 
I do have one question: Is there a certain sampler that you have in mind that this would go especially simply/quickly with?
 
I can't wait to try it. Thanks again  :)
LJ

As usual scook comes through. Actually I've done this kind of thing with Dimension Pro, but IIRC I had to write a basic SFZ file first. It's not hard for something as basic as just placing a sample on a keycenter and stretching it an octave - this article should help.

Really don't need an sfz file, B Rock describes the process with Rapture here
Dropping the clip on a kit piece in Session Drummer also avoids the need for an sfz file.
You can do a lot more with an sfz file though.
 

southpaw3473
The way we used to use tape speed was to record the backing tracks first, making sure they were in pitch. Then, if the offending instrument was sharp, increase the tape speed slightly during tracking so the original tracks were in tune. Record and return the speed to normal. It was very effective and a common technique.

 
[Edit - I have a better way to do this now, which I'll describe in a different thread. This method works only with fairly short sections, 128 beats or less. The improved version works with files of any length]
 
If you know your way around the Loop Construction window, it's easy. If not, you'll have a slight learning curve. But the learning curve is worth it. The Loop Construction window can do a whole lot more than just create loops; it can to the tape-style transposition mentioned so many times in this thread, does it in real time, and can resolve pitch to fractions of a cent. Not to get too off-topic here but I even use it to add variations to vocal phrases - no looping at all.
 
1. Set the project default pitch (i.e., the key).
2. Premix the tracks whose pitch you want to raise (or lower, but we'll use your example above as the basis).
3. Calculate the exact number beats in the clip.*
4. Open the clip in the Loop Construction window, and turn on looping. Enter the number of beats from step 3.
5. You don't want any slices, so move the transient slider all the way to the left (0%), and select no slicing.
6. There are windows for adjusting semitones and cents. Do NOT enable the pitch button, pitch changes can be done without it and enabling pitch will just confuse matters. Cents will do +/-49 cents which should be enough. (You can actually do any amount of pitch change but explaining that is more typing than I want to do right now. I'll assume half a semitone either way is enough for you.)
7. Now your premix is sharp or flat by however many cents you entered. Play the part along with it.
8. When you're done, delete the premix. Follow a procedure similar to the one described above to process the newly-recorded track and change its pitch in the equal and opposite direction.
 
Because you didn't enable stretching, the duration will change slightly with pitch, just like tape. However this is also what helps maintain fidelity as you're asking Sonar to change only pitch, not pitch and duration.
 
* Some people have reported issues with clips over 256 beats but I think they're trying to do looping. That may not matter here because you're not preserving duration, it acts just like tape varispeed. If there are issues, break the premix down into smaller clips.
 

scook
Really don't need an sfz file, B Rock describes the process with Rapture here
Dropping the clip on a kit piece in Session Drummer also avoids the need for an sfz file.
You can do a lot more with an sfz file though.

Then maybe I didn't write an SFZ file, it was quite a while ago. But I do remember this technique working with Dim Pro, so it's probably done the same was as described in the link for Rapture.

"Vari-speed techniques with Sonar" would make a great column for Sound on Sound...hmmm...as people seem to have figured out the take lanes, maybe I'll do the vari-speed one first since there seems to be so much interest. Thanks every one for the inspiration!

My VS-1680 (and all Roland hard disk recorders) have this feature.  It is useful for a number of things and this is NOT a stupid request.  It is logical to ask for this.

konradh
My VS-1680 (and all Roland hard disk recorders) have this feature.  It is useful for a number of things and this is NOT a stupid request.  It is logical to ask for this.

Yes, but my point is that so far, the vari-speed functions people seem to want most can already be done in Sonar using either the iZotope transpose algorithms or the loop construction window. Of course some of the techniques I've described are workarounds, but plugging a sine wave oscillator into a Macintosh amp to drive a capstan motor at 110V wasn't exactly "plug and play" (that's how we did variable speed back in the dawn of history, when dinosaurs ruled the earth).
 
But also note that some of these workarounds allow stretching pitch and time independently, which tape recorders (or ADATs, for that matter) couldn't do. I'm not sure the 1680 could do that, either. And the procedure I described for doing sped-up or slowed down vocals sure seems like it would be easier than dumping audio into a different program, processing it, and then bringing it back into Sonar. It's certainly easy enough that I use that particular type of "variable speed" frequently, as evidenced in the song link I posted.
 
One thing that isn't possible with Sonar is real-time control of all tracks simultaneously, like if you wanted to speed up or slow down an entire project while it's playing. However, that was rarely done in the tape days either because changing speed changed pitch. It was far more common to continue on the multitrack at the existing speed (especially because not that many multitracks had variable speed initially), and speed up or slow down while bouncing to two-track...and Sonar has no problem speeding up or slowing down a two-track master without changing pitch (which is usually what I want). If you want to change pitch by a few cents, you can do this in the loop construction window or by semitones, using the iZotope algorithms.
 
No matter how you stretch it messes with the sound, so I tend to think of it as a last resort anyway. While I might want variable speed on rare occasions, for me it's not a priority because what's already in Sonar (as detailed in the techniques above) takes care of what I need on those occasions.
 
Personally, I'd rather see a really great tremolo plug-in and multiband distortion

Says the inventor of multiband distortion. ;)

rodreb
Check out Lindsey Buckingham's use of vari-speed on many of his guitar parts. Awesome!
 

Is vari-speed the effect Todd Rundgren used on a lot of his guitar parts... ie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xP_D0tYoJ4
 
Edit: come to think of it, if that is the technique used I'll bet it's the way he got his really tight vox harmonies too?