I'm sure this must have been discussed before but I was unable to find anything via a
search.

Is there a way to get Sonar to start at measure zero? If a piece starts with pickup notes, you end up having your measure numbers and phrasing out of sync. Most tunes have 4, 8, 16 bar phrases. I want them to start on measure 1, 8, 16, etc., not 2, 9, 17, etc. It's very counter-intuitive.

Another reason to want a measure zero is to send initial MIDI settings (vol, mod wheel, etc.) well before the music starts.

All thoughts and ideas welcome.

Can't do it as of now. I'd absolutely love to see a negative bar count in ... would be handy for those sorts of things. What I do now is start a song on a different odd measure ... usually 3.

ORIGINAL: enharmonic

I want them to start on measure 1, 8, 16, etc., not 2, 9, 17, etc. It's very counter-intuitive.

Obviously, you mean measures 1, 9, 17, 25...

I always start on measure 9.

Another reason to have time up front is if you are not quantizing everything. In such a case, notes might be played a fraction of a second before the initial measure.

-Naren

Another reason

And any patches to change and buffers to fill.

General Midi requires (orders?) time before the first notes to send midi initialization commands, and those who have written a few GM scores get in the habit of leaving at least a couple of measures before the tune begins. The OPs idea of starting on track 9 seems like a good idea.

However, I too would like the ability to renumber my measures from any point in the score. Even better would be the ability to create sections in a score so that I can set a "measure 1" for each section (can I set the background colors for each section, too please?).

These kinds of features make composing and even playing along much easier because I can quickly see groups of 16 bars.

Since songs can be any number of measures long, limited only by memory, I wonder if there's any penalty for starting at measure 100? This would sure make the counting simple. And if this is OK, I wonder if beginning each section on subsequent 100s boundaries, ie, 100, 200, 300, etc., might not be a bad idea?

Sorry, do not wish to hijack the thread, but has anyone tried writing this way?

I wonder if there's any penalty for starting at measure 100? This would sure make the counting simple. And if this is OK, I wonder if beginning each section on subsequent 100s boundaries, ie, 100, 200, 300, etc., might not be a bad idea?

Good idea actually..as a workaround for what we got now. I do like your feature requests even more.. the renumbering and the colors!
There was actually a "over a few hundreds measurs" midifile bug report a long time ago..I checked that classical midifile (it was from a site with long classical pieces) with Sonar 4 (and almost sure that also with 5)
After around 400 measures there was a big problem with importing and working with that file - Sonar chopped the endings of each track at different positions..that midifile could play in Winamp or WMP but not in Sonar, not the full length of it.
I hope it's better since then, I didn't check.

Enharmonic - "It's very counter-intuitive" - sure, 100%..it does make it hard. It's surprising we didn't see such requests here lately (if ever)

Hmmmm, starting at measure 100...
That seems like it would really work. I'm constatnly scratching my head trying to add 4 to 19 and 8 to 33 and the like, this might simplify things. Just make sure to set the first marke to measure 99 or so.

However, I too would like the ability to renumber my measures from any point in the score. Even better would be the ability to create sections in a score so that I can set a "measure 1" for each section

I doubt that you'll ever see that feature. It would be extremely confusing to the DAW software and any MIDI tracks. Personally, it would be confusing to me, as well. (Then again, I'm from the "old school" and am conditioned to read charts & scores with various notations & symbols that indicate when a new "section" begins & ends). I do, on the other hand, like your idea of changing color schemes for various passages within a song. It's not something that I necessarily would rely on but I think it would be a nice option to have.

Now then, to address your first question about starting at measure "zero". Here's my workaround:

I plan things so that the downbeat of the first "real" full measure falls on measure 21...Prior to that measure I get myself into the "mood" of the song by playing 8 bars or so and then starting a count-in so that measure 21 is actually measure "1"....I can easily look at my chart and figure out that the written measure "48" is actually measure "68" in my software. As a side note, the idea of a "negative" starting point is "doable" within a DAW system. Adobe's Audition allows the user that option. However, Audition doesn't record MIDI so I have not been able to ascertain how (or if) that would work within a MIDI based DAW recording (and I'm no MIDI expert so I won't even fathom a guess) or using SMPTE or MTC sync.

Interesting topic and excellent ideas on your part, but remember...the more complex the features that are added to a program usually translates to more $$$$...For my dollars spent, I don't mind the, IMO, minor inconvenience of not being able to have an actual "measure 1"...FWIW, I can remember nearly having an orgasm when the first analog tape decks were introduced that actually showed a true HH:MM:SS LED display on the counter as opposed to the antiquated "rolling numbers" counter display that really showed you nothing!

I Agree!

It would be good if we at least could have measure 0 as the first measure.
Then we have bar 0 to send Sysex, pgmchange e.t.c. while still start on bar 1.


To be able to colorcode the different sections in the ruler would be really helpful.

I have used a workaround for this for a long time, but it would be better if it was built into Sonar.

I record any note at beat one and another note at beat 4 in bar1. Press alt-enter and select white as foreground(text) and blue as background and name the "clip" Count-In.
Then I repeat this but with 8 bar sections and other BG colors calling the different "clips" Intro, Vers , Chorus, Bridge Outro ...
So each section only contains 2 dummy MIDI-event, one at start of each section and one at the very end of each section.

When I'm ready I save this as a template. (Or rather several different templates) (Se Pic.)

[image][/image]
MQ

I doubt that you'll ever see that feature. It would be extremely confusing to the DAW software and any MIDI tracks. Personally, it would be confusing to me, as well.

confusing!? but it's just OPTIONAL...you don't have to renumber anything if you don't want to..

so that measure 21 is actually measure "1"....I can easily look at my chart and figure out that the written measure "48" is actually measure "68" in my software

talking about confusing - this is much more confusing! not that it's so hard to do but these kind of workarounds just add "one more thing" here and there until it gets to a point where you realize "wow, it could be so simple" (and you know.. users adapt some strange workarounds sometimes..we "get used" to some alternate workflow things but it doesn't mean it's all justified)

what i'm trying to say - let's not forget the simple request of the OP..it makes perfect sense.

aha..I see it now.. I do agree with some of this -

the more complex the features that are added to a program usually translates to more $$$$...For my dollars spent, I don't mind the, IMO, minor inconvenience of not being able to have an actual "measure 1"

I would maybe say that about the other suggestions (total renumbering and colors for sections..or Regions/Playlists that we ask for a long time) but not regarding the measure zero option - this SHOULD be there, it's not a matter of expensive development in that case.