tobiaslindahl
If anyone feels limited by the features in Sonar ( and most other DAW's available today ) the problem is not with the DAWs but the talent and/or creativity of the person using them.
 
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This is only part of true and simplified one, I am afraid.
Sonar has very crashy audio engine and is very gentle about plugins.
 
Constantly fighting against results of bugs (reloading projects or Sonar again and again) has nothing to do with creativity. It just kill workflow completely...
 
Another thing sometimes - with all my respect for excellent in many areas job of developers - lack of creativity is at development stage. One of many examples such 'unfinished' feature is implementing riples without button to switch it on/off and indicating current status. Probably most requested features about riples and... easiest to implement... It is work for few minutes, all needed thing for it already done, just create button with indication...
 
Sonar has great potential and many excellent designs but need many loves for improvement and bug cleanings.
 
To create save way for future I bought S1. Its engine is much more stable on the same machines I use Sonar (1-2 crash over few months). Well, I still prefer anyway to use Sonar as Skylight is amazing, for me best DAW GUI. But it cost me constant pain with crashes and strange behavior :(
 
But I am happy it has new owner and this one differs from previous ones he seems really be excited this DAW, not just like another acquisition to broad pallette of products. So again I have a hope for bugs cleanup (maybe engine rewriting?) and improvements strongly oriented and tested on real and complete (!) workflows of people working with DAW.

Well, in some circles...not all of them be circles...But whom owns what, and whom is going to be owned...or what, if we dig into financial corp take overs, and or unseen ownersheepship....Just to avoid any court or law....Things to undo, what was done.....Is or as it be is...Is..as it may be....So, it might be nice to see the product of Cake being served by so call other interested bought or sold....from or to, or in keeping...sold to avoid....Is just the shell game of some corps, tied hands or not but might be in future.....No one out side the loop, or circle needs know!...But could be....?
 
 
Now, Don't fooled by the radio, tv, or the magazines....Just remember that it is a grand illusion...and play liken children...find out the lingo, make a lookie see into the codex...and seek to solve!....Freely given, freely received as so, when made because it is a good thing, or very good thing made...Was a way of method...But denied by the anti of that method to employ cost fee and taxation to fuel..X,Y, Z to solve for...so when one pays, and they say this, that and the other as word is with it being the Working model of future this or that....and it is not proper sold, to make one pay to fix, what they did not break or make....and they say more is needed to solve, but one last payment for life...to get it right...and or the hook line and sinker offered as a might be is being worked upon...But is nothing more than a shell of what was, as given to say,...we tried....failed...and now are closed out of...sold out to?....
 
 
Interesting the reserection of...Is just to remove the cap, so it can make money again, and loose the owners of the licence by saying these other applications will take your licence of old, and give you another product, with the same muse attached....The cash cow is not a game for children...if it be tied to other things, some might not know it fuels.
 
 
So many perspectives one can look into...as a way to solve a problem put by words.
 
What say you?....I do not believe Cakewalk had bad intentions for this....and I believe, what is occurring now, can be just to take the product out of that Last offer many bought into...because it was not completely proper in its workings....
 
Now I know some were using older versions....But for me X1 was a turd...so x2 cost...and more fixes applied...still no glory for some...x3...still not proper for some...Seemingly dependent on type of gear, drivers, and OS changes...Keeps the application market on OS MS...in constant flux.
 
It is based on...the cash cow!....never proper, but always fixing....at the cost of the user...or con sue me er...If you like taking words apart....and changing meanings to mean....not what you read...but what it is.
 
 
Think outside the box, most heads have been in way too  long ....trying to make it work.....some have said it does, some not so saying it be totally stable and makes errors with files and such being either corrupted, or just not able to get it locked to the drivers of audio gear..always being lost...or crashing on start up, or hanging...
 
 
Saw enough...not sure who is to blame...but part to blame is the one who buys.....also, be a fool when stuff like this occurs....What did you expect from a Cash cow system?...Life time updates or something?
 
 
 
Oh yah words....eh?
 

Jeff Evans
Waves Scheps Omni Channel does everything that Sonar's Pro Channel ever did and more.  (its on special too I think still) There are a ton of EQ's out there that would easily match the Quad curve for its sound and features.  You are wrong in thinking the Quad curve is the only EQ out there.

 Yes, I have the Scheps, its "ok". I didn't say the quad curve EQ  was the only one out there. I said its the best sounding and smoothest, to my ears, especially the filters. Most EQ filters have an odd phasey sound, even the Scheps Omni Channel does. The Studio One Pro EQ in general sounds awful to my ears, the FatChannel EQ is a little better though. I did try these and purchased them https://kilohearts.com/products/khs_equalizers they are the closest to the Quad Curve smoothness IMO :-)

Anderton

sharke
I'll go out on a limb and suggest that Reaper does a lot more than Sonar and is a superior DAW in almost every way. 

Universal statements assume people all use something in the same way, which they don't. For example, try creating a loop library that will stretch in other DAWs with Reaper. There's no matrix view, which regardless of whether it's underutilized or not, is a valuable songwriting and improvisational tool. No DSD import or export for your Japanese clients. No tempo extraction from freestyle playing. No upsampling, which is sooo much easier to do in Sonar than any other program. I'm not sure if Reaper has FX Chains but those are extremely valuable additions to both Studio One and Sonar.
 
Sonar is also a more complete package - people who don't have the money to invest in lots of plug-ins will welcome features like the QuadCurve EQ (once you learn what those four curves can do, it's very difficult to obtain the same results in other EQs), TH3, Melodyne, Blue Tubes, phase-linear EQ with mid/side options per node (I know you can use ReaFIR as an linear-phase EQ, but it's clumsy and AFAIK doesn't offer mid-side processing), etc. I don't think those who want a complete package would dismiss them as just "goodies" but rather, see them as essential tools. Rapture Session also comes with some very useful sounds.
 
I know Reaper is going to have ARA integration at some point (maybe it already does, I dunno), but Studio One has had it since 2011 and Sonar since 2013 IIRC. 
 
Now, maybe these features mean nothing to you. However, I would never say Sonar is superior to Reaper in "almost every way" just because Sonar has features I need and Reaper doesn't. Similarly, there are features in Studio One and Live that neither Sonar nor Reaper can touch. Try mastering an album in Reaper compared to Studio One. 
 
The reason why there are so many different DAWs is because different people have different needs. I'm really tired of this whole "my DAW is better than your DAW" sports team mentality. People should just use the DAW that's most congruent with their needs, and make music with it. 

That's why I said "in almost every way." I was recognizing the fact that Sonar has features that Reaper doesn't. I'm talking about its core functionality. It runs smoother, is more snappy, is more CPU efficient, more stable and virtually every core DAW feature that I use on a day to day basis is better designed and works better than Sonar's equivalent. And I also recognized the fact that it doesn't come with a lot of "goodies." But if you've already built up a collection of 3rd party tools, it's an incredibly high powered, well designed, infinitely configurable DAW which runs like a dream in ways that I could never have imagined with Sonar. I've had the opportunity of running identical projects (same tracks, same plugins) side by side in Reaper and Sonar and Sonar feels like a geriatric in comparison.

Sonar's big downfall IMO was that there was too much emphasis on packing so many features into the program, and not enough emphasis on making the core functionality solid. In the course of my typical session with Sonar, I encounter so many bugs and annoyances it has me tearing my hair out. Doing things the same things in Reaper, I haven't encountered a single bug or crash or anything that had me yelling at the screen. I'm sure it does have bugs (all software does) but the bug situation is clearly less serious. And from all of the examples of fantastic, well thought out design that I encounter in every session, I get the overwhelming feeling that it's been developed with a lot of user input (i.e. in most cases no brainer improvements & features just get done, rather than people having to harp on about them for years with no joy).

By the way, I'd wager that Pro-Q 2 can achieve any curves the Quadcurve can (as well as anything else you can think of even up to the most extreme square-sided bell curves which I'm finding incredibly useful for removing harshness from tracks). The Quadcurve is indeed a great EQ, but saying that nothing else can do what it does is a little inaccurate. After all it's just a basic EQ with a couple of SSL emulation modes, of which there are others available.

Sir Les
Well, in some circles...not all of them be circles...But whom owns what, and whom is going to be owned...or what, if we dig into financial corp take overs, and or unseen ownersheepship....Just to avoid any court or law....Things to undo, what was done.....Is or as it be is...Is..as it may be....So, it might be nice to see the product of Cake being served by so call other interested bought or sold....from or to, or in keeping...sold to avoid....Is just the shell game of some corps, tied hands or not but might be in future.....No one out side the loop, or circle needs know!...But could be....?
 
...
 
Saw enough...not sure who is to blame...but part to blame is the one who buys.....also, be a fool when stuff like this occurs....What did you expect from a Cash cow system?...Life time updates or something?
Oh yah words....eh?

I didn't understand a word of that, but I wholeheartedly agree with whatever you said.  :)

Rasure
 Most EQ filters have an odd phasey sound, even the Scheps Omni Channel does. The Studio One Pro EQ in general sounds awful to my ears, the FatChannel EQ is a little better though. I did try these and purchased them https://kilohearts.com/products/khs_equalizers they are the closest to the Quad Curve smoothness IMO :-)

My ears aren't well-trained enough to clearly hear the things you are talking about.  Just curious if you have tried the EQs in Izotope Neutron (there's a traditional parametric EQ and a dynamic EQ).  Where would you put that on the smoothness spectrum?

cparmerlee
...If the Cakewalk piece was profitable, it would not have been difficult to find a buyer who would pay something better than zero.  The fact they shut it down without a buyer is conclusive proof that it has not been profitable recently...

 
I was assuming the same thing a while back, but comments from people with inside knowledge suggest otherwise. Apparently CW was actually making a profit but suffering from from lack of clear direction, due to a combination of bad management decisions plus some good decisions not properly followed through.

chuckebaby
 
Cakewalk had approx. 8-10 people developing Sonar. They now have 2 people developing Sonar.

 
Not sure where you got that information but its inaccurate. In 2017 there were only 3 full time engineers working on SONAR. The others were working on Momentum, plugins and another product that was never released. Yes the dev's are that good :) Having two people working on SONAR isn't a stretch.
The most we've had working on SONAR for sustained period of time in the last 7 years has been about 6 people. Most engineers time shared alongside other projects most of the time.

Years of users leaving due to 'issues' that they did not find in alternative systems, and s did not return, has been highly damaging to Sonar reputation. Cakewalk and Sonar have always struggled  to be rated among the other DAWs, it was third in a three horse race, and now it's a stampede.
 
Hopefully this down time will mean that BandLab get it right, and with their customer base draw on a new market to give the program a more positive profile.

Rasure

Jeff Evans
Waves Scheps Omni Channel does everything that Sonar's Pro Channel ever did and more.  (its on special too I think still) There are a ton of EQ's out there that would easily match the Quad curve for its sound and features.  You are wrong in thinking the Quad curve is the only EQ out there.

Yes, I have the Scheps, its "ok". I didn't say the quad curve EQ  was the only one out there. I said its the best sounding and smoothest, to my ears, especially the filters. Most EQ filters have an odd phasey sound, even the Scheps Omni Channel does. The Studio One Pro EQ in general sounds awful to my ears, the FatChannel EQ is a little better though. I did try these and purchased them https://kilohearts.com/products/khs_equalizers they are the closest to the Quad Curve smoothness IMO :-)

I have the schepps. but I still prefer the PrChannel, because not every track needs mre than few plugs, and being able to compare several tracks in on view with their plugs rather than changing through 3-4 Omni Channes is easier. 
 
Compared t the default Prochannel, the omni can do more, but not compared to the expanded  ProChannel. But here I think cakewalk missed a trick in not getting enough ProChannel Partners, to make it a really creative tool.
 
I purchsed the Kilohearts bundle at the weekend, similar to the ProChannel and Omni, and it's can do more than both of them, The Multi Band and Parallel Option, and it will continue to expand. I can't help looking at it and thinking,  BandLab should partner with them, it would double the number of tools, and take the ProChannel even further with capabilities. It wuold be awesome