• SONAR
  • Sub-mix levels question: which option is best? (p.2)
2014/09/16 15:05:01
Anderton
Anonymungus!
Hello - here's a related Question:  Does clip gain add any distortion/modulation to audio, especially if you go up & down a few times?




Up and down a few times doesn't matter...a 64-bit engine has a lot of resolution. 
 
Turning it up won't cause distortion in the track itself, but it could lead to distortion further downstream, or change characteristics of subsequent effects like compression or distortion.
2014/09/16 15:05:28
Anderton
blu lacez
yeah, i found that grouping tracks works well, cuz when you move the fader, they all move together.
Is there a way to do a sub mix, like on Logic Pro X?




There are several ways to submix in Sonar. What is it exactly that you want to do?
2014/09/16 15:51:03
robert_e_bone
If by sub-mix, you mean using additional buses, that is sort of what the OP was doing, except he kind of took it too far for being practical.
 
A common thing to do is to route common instruments to a single sub-bus for each instrument group, which is then routed to the master, though additional layering is potentially beneficial, depending on the nature of the bus configuration you end up with.
 
This is done for a couple of reasons: 1st, grouping like instruments (like 1st violin, 2nd violin, cello, viola), by routing them to a bus (Strings), allows you the flexibility to control individual instruments as needed while also allowing the whole section to be brought up or down.  2nd, 'like' instruments usually have similar kinds of reverb and such applied to them, so you could share a single instance of whatever reverb you wanted to use for the string section.  (This saves CPU, and makes changing the effect levels and/or other parameters easier, since doing it once benefits the whole bus).
 
Folks often route each drum kit piece to its own audio track, then group those tracks by sending things like all the toms to a Toms bus, and all the cymbals to a 'Cymbals' bus, and these buses are then routed to a main 'Drums' bus, which itself is routed to the Master bus.
 
It's all about grouping 'like' instruments for making it easier to add effects to, to save CPU by reducing the number of effects instances are used, and about controlling volume of grouped tracks with single faders.
 
If you watch the first part of one of the Sonar videos, on Larger Than Life Drums, they explain this and go through the setup - and the 'why'.  Here is a link to that video:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH9W1MD80kk
 
You can skip ahead to 7:00 into the video, and they will shortly begin adding the extra buses, and explaining how and why they do so.
 
Bob Bone
 
2014/09/16 16:06:35
Wouter Schijns
there's 6 db input gain, plus 6 db output volume on your synth bus, for you to set.
also grouping your synths faders and then rightclick fader/group manager/choose 'relative' would be option.
imo better option than using a limiter as that will add latency to your whole project.
2014/09/16 16:52:40
Sanderxpander
Latency isn't really a problem during mixdown, it's only a problem when you want to play a live instrument.
That said, a limiter is indeed not such a good idea because that's exactly the kind of stuff the mastering engineer would want to apply with his expertise.
2014/09/16 17:48:41
Wouter Schijns
hi Sander, most VST will add latency on mixdown, it's best to bounce VST tracks before misdown.
when needed you VST latency can be fixed with audiosnap (take pool from original audio then copy to bounced audio incl VST) or just move the clip.
same goes for the quadcurve EQ, you want to bounce before and turn off on mixdown, in my opinion.
 
2014/09/16 18:25:04
Sanderxpander
We have been down this road before. You're wrong, and I'm not getting into it again, you got lots of explanations last time.
2014/09/17 06:04:37
Karyn
Wouter Schijns
hi Sander, most VST will add latency on mixdown, it's best to bounce VST tracks before misdown.
when needed you VST latency can be fixed with audiosnap (take pool from original audio then copy to bounced audio incl VST) or just move the clip.
same goes for the quadcurve EQ, you want to bounce before and turn off on mixdown, in my opinion.
 


This is completely wrong.
2014/09/17 07:53:25
Eric_171615
In my opinion, Option 4 is the best.
 
If you need to mix for competitive loudness, remove artifacts and carefully eq your sounds early on, put compressors with very low compression ratios on each track and on sub-busses as required to gently reduce overall dynamic range. The rest can be done in mastering.
2014/09/18 04:41:51
blu lacez
Anderton
blu lacez
yeah, i found that grouping tracks works well, cuz when you move the fader, they all move together.
Is there a way to do a sub mix, like on Logic Pro X?




There are several ways to submix in Sonar. What is it exactly that you want to do?


Really, kindly share Anderton. Id like to group several mix tracks-chorus, response and adlibs..etc.  it is hard to explain here, but if you can school on the various ways, I will see which one, i can work with.
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