Steev
 
This is a result of what happens when the great minds of Roland, Yamaha, and Korg get together and stop the politics of competing with each other, and put their heads together to come up with a solution that helps EVERYBODY!

 
Some info here you may find interesting:
 
https://www.midi.org/articles/a-brief-history-of-midi
 
I had the original Oberheim System myself.  It was fast over the parallel port.  It could also address 8 CV/Gate synths at the same time. This was all pre midi.  It only had 6000 notes though.  Regarding early midi sequencers MC500 was OK and I used it for a while myself.  It was a bit of a toy though and I got out of it pretty fast.  Yamaha brought out a sequencer called the QX1 which was in another league at the time.  It had 8 midi out ports on it which was unheard of then.  The timing of the midi ports was separate as well meaning it was quite a bit better.  It could address 128 midi channels. It had 80,000 notes! Serious.
 
Roland and Yamaha and Korg did not get together.  Someone else got them together and that was Dave Smith from Sequential Circuits fame.  He was the one that got them in the room together.  And a few others as well.  Many walked out and refused to get involved at first.  Some of the big players remained and in the end they agreed.  It took some convincing apparently.  They only did it kicking and screaming.  The rest is history of course.  The others got on board pretty damn fast though.
 
The statement regarding Sonar as being the most powerful midi sequencer is opinion, not fact at all. Only a belief.  A slightly one sided Sonar view.  Fact! Sonar's midi timing is poor as well under certain conditions.  An aspect of Sonar that is not well known.  Studio One is way ahead in that area.  Logic and Cubase started earlier than Cakewalk and are in fact still the most powerful midi sequencers.  Logic is deep and I mean deep.  Many don't know about it because they are only on one computer platform.  Logic and Cubase have also got great midi timing.  Logic has AMT (Active Midi Transmission) and Cubase has LTB. (Linear Timebase)  Where you connect their own midi interfaces to their software you get amazing midi timing being tightened up by a factor of 10.  Well you did anyway back then. Not sure what is going on there now but I believe it is still implemented. 
 

Steev
FAQ Reaper, you are on the wrong wave length. We are CAKEWALK!  And that's all we need for a Reason.
 
BTW, you and rewire Reason to SONAR, and good things happen. 

BIG SMILE !! 

Jeff Evans
 
Some info here you may find interesting:
 
https://www.midi.org/articles/a-brief-history-of-midi
 
I had the original Oberheim System myself.  It was fast over the parallel port.  It could also address 8 CV/Gate synths at the same time. This was all pre midi.  It only had 6000 notes though.  Regarding early midi sequencers MC500 was OK and I used it for a while myself.  It was a bit of a toy though and I got out of it pretty fast.  Yamaha brought out a sequencer called the QX1 which was in another league at the time.  It had 8 midi out ports on it which was unheard of then.  The timing of the midi ports was separate as well meaning it was quite a bit better.  It could address 128 midi channels. It had 80,000 notes! Serious.

Roland MC500 !! ..........1986! ........so impressed Jeff !!!!....:)


You have indeed been in it for 'The Long Haul' !!.....True believers like you mean 'we are where we are' :) ..Cheers Buddy !!
Having Said That ....
If I may indulge.............
My Father In Law...................(God Rest His Soul ...left us 2000).......was a powerful, MIDI 'True Believer' and this was a point of extreme common interest between him and his son in law ( :) ) ... BACK THEN...............do I miss him ...yeah quite a bit.
I am now doing a Log of  Household assets for my Mother In Law ( at her request ) who is now approaching 94 years of wisdom. 
Among the gear I have logged :

• Beat Machine -  'Rhythm Ace'
• MIDI Arranger - Roland RA50
• Digital Sequence Recorder -Yamaha QX5
• Remote Editor - Korg RE1
• 6 Channel Stereo Mixer - Boss BX600
• MIDI Data Filer - Yamaha MDF 
• Stereo Power Amplifier - Cutec PA 1202
• MIDI Keyboard - Yamaha DX
• I am certain..........all this gear is pre 2000.

Any of it ring bells for you..........just interested :).............Frank In  Geelong 

Jeff I know the MC 500 was a very unimpressive and unassuming looking device, it looked very much more like a telephone answering machine than anything else.
 Mine actually still works, though many of my floppy discs died of old age, but I always copied/transferred and stored all my compositions to my Commodore 64, and then later to Windows PC that had shipped with what was at the time known as a mind blowing MIDI editor called Cakewalk DOS! 
 
I wasn't much impressed with the Yamaha QX 1 at the time. The MC 500 supported 20,000 more MIDI notes than the QX 1, and I didn't see any practical need for 8 MIDI ports being you could daisy chain and wire MIDI devices and synths together thru one port and the MC 500 had two. Daisy chaining also made for a much tidier wiring solution. But hey, to each his/her own... There are many ways and paths to take
 Not that I was really expecting to wire too many synths together back than as they were bone chillingly expensive.
 That why as much as I didn't want to, my first MIDI synth was the tiny Casio CZ 1000 with the tiny keyboard that was actually too small for my large guitar playing hands. Talk about something that was laughably toy like to gaze upon. But again, do not judge a book by it's cover, some pretty huge and fat sounds came out of the little guy, and it was used on many, many, many, hit recordings.
But tiny keys or not I bought it because it was only an additional $1100 (US) bundled with the Roland MC 500 for a grand total of $2400 (US).
 
By the time I had paid that off, Korg has released a MIDI retrofit  for my Korg Poly 6 for only a couple hundred bucks installed. Not only solving my tiny keyboard problem on the CZ 1000, I no longer had to use cassette tapes to store custom made synth patch presets!
 I was so happy about that I nixed my plans to buy a Korg Poly 61 and got me a Yamaha DX 7 for it's KILLER Rhodes alone.
 The DX 7 was quite beautiful both in sound and appearance, but felt like a toy compared to the Poly 6.
It also died a year or 2 before the Korg did..... May they both rest in Peace.
 But I have the Korg Legacy VSTi Bundle which actually ALL early Korg synths gives MIDI functionality, control, and polyphony and instant patch (program) changes to the clunky little MS 20 one sound at a time patch cord monster.
 I used to have to save my dial settings and cord patches for the MS 20 to templates with a pencil and paper. That process also required owning a copy machine.
 
 It wasn't until the mid to late 90's I purchased a Yamaha QY 70 hand held battery operated 8 track sequencer that could store 10 songs with hundreds and hundreds patches and rhythm loops and a very nice sounding  built in GM/XG sound module.
 man did I ever love that little toy which greatly enhanced and pushed my solo acoustic guitar act over the top.
 I used that for about a year, until one day sitting in relatively quiet and abandoned smoking section of Penn Station in NYC, I put the QY 70 down in the seat next to me with ear buds still stuffed into my ears, and took my eyes of it to one or two seconds to light a cigarette........... And it vanished into thin air.......
 After about 5-10 seconds of shock and anger, I just had to break out in laughter and asking myself questions like; "Are you new to this city ya freak'in KNUCLEHEAD???"
 I actually marveled at how fast it disappeared without a trace or clue to which way it went.
 
 I than just threw my hands up and headed over to Sam Ash to replace the beloved QY 70 which I had no intentions of living without.
 But I was [only] half wrong, I didn't replace it with another Yamaha, I replaced it with a considerably better sounding Roland PMA 5 8 track sequencer with GM/GS tone module with considerably more patches, more genre choices and 1000's of rhythm loops library with a nice heavy duty laminated copy listed on paper, that folds and fits neatly into a pouch in the PMA 5  genuine leather case. And my song playlist doubled to 20, and it also had touch screen that not only displayed chords with a 4 beat count in for changes, it made it super easy to change and program any type of chord with a stylus. The PMA 5 only has one switch to turn it on or off, and one knob to control the volume.
 
And the best part of owning the PMA 5 was yet to come, when Cakewalk introduced the TTS-1 DXi synth to SONAR. What a complimenting pair they are working with together and with any and all Roland synths that supports Roland's GM/GS sound libraries, and I can also bulk dump different library versions back and forth.
 
I still use the PMA 5 today. I simply plug it into the stereo Aux. audio input on my line 6 Spider V120 combo amp, run 2 XLR mic cables from the Spider's line outputs to the FOH mixing console, plug in the foot controller pedal board with a Cat 5 Ethernet cable and I'm ARMED and DANGEROUS within 2-5 minutes tops.
 The Spider 5 also sounds great thru the line outputs plugged directly into my 18i20 audio interface, and needs no mics in front of it.
 It also has a choice of 3 different mic models to choose from, a Neumann U67, Senheiser 421, or Shure 57.
 It needs no EQ or even compression when recording to SONAR, and the Spider V120 also has a USB port and responds instantaneously to MIDI control and program changes.
 
MIDI isn't going anywhere, MIDI is going everywhere.
 
 And so anyone who likes to wax poetic on their beloved vintage tape recording and coveted vintage tube amps, and classic stomp boxes....
 All I can say is; "Been there, screw ALL of that!" There ain't NOTHING like new, and my pet Spider's 1964 Fender Deluxe model is as bone chillingly authentic as my original blackface, and much better in so many ways.
Dial it in once and set up you favorite stomp boxes and forget about it.
 Forget about ever having to replace tubes and 9 volt batteries.
 And forget about ever getting lost under a wall of sound on stage ever again. With 120 watts of amp power it's a 1964 Fender Deluxe on steroids, or any number of Marshalls, or an Orange, Vox, or whatever with a solid rugged build, tuff as nails and only weighs in @ 35 lbs. and takes up very little real estate.
 
 

Midi and Audio work station is for music making...score or notation, or a way to edit midi for VSTi..and effects, and controllers..Ect....Is a must...and it must be working to the best of abilities to make the time line and or sync up proper to each other.
 
I find Sonar has a meter resolution of 000.00 in metronome count....it should be more robust..000.0000.
 
Editing midi at least the basic event, and list is fine...note edit is ok...the resolution of the metronome is weak in my understanding...should go to 4 decimal place past the point or more, as other daws use more resolutions making midi files...
 
I know Roland used to have this sorted in the past days of yor.....Computers and Ten trax had a 000.0000 resolution with midi....Why is it not in the Sonar same midi engine to say suit PT Pro tools....or other which does count below 0 to define feel, or movement of time to go with, or tie in better to other Applications which have defined the Audio Daw and midi work ethic?.
 
 
So yah , work to do in overhauling...Not reducing...and fixing it ...so it continues to be a DAW worth every penny some spent to see work as said.....That day...might take a bit of sour notes, and bash and banging with a hammer....But I know, if one is seeking to profit more so....in any things one does....It is not money that will make it good or great....It is the heart to make it right that does it!
 
.

Well Steev it seems you have been right there through the whole midi development thing.  I did not mind the MC500 actually.  It is just that by the time I got mine I already had a room full of analog synths and I was wanting to be able to sequence them.  I needed Midi to CV/Gate converters in order to do it which I got of course then.  The one midi out was a bit restrictive.  The QX1 was harder to use than the MC500 at the time though.  MC500's do crop up today but often without the software disc and that can be a bit tricky tracking down.
 
To Frank Harvey yes I have and do know (and owned) about many of those things you have listed there.  Rhythm Ace for sure.  Now that is a classic.  Yamaha QX5, RA50, Midi Data Filer (Still have mine, not sure why!) DX keyboard as well.  Yes all great classic midi stuff for sure.  If it's an original Rhythm Ace that will be the most valuable thing in that list though.
 
I am very happy with how things are now. They are certainly a lot better that is for sure.  I had many of the hardware Korg synths in the classic collection software now and they do sound amazing.  I love the virtual stuff now.  It sounds very good to me.  Certainly not worth the hassle of the hardware.  I started with Dr T's on the Atari and then moved onto Steinberg Pro 24 and eventually the first incarnation of Cubase and then CLab Notator.  Once PC's got going I was with Logic for quite a while until Apple shut that down around 2002. Then Sonar 8.5 but switched to Studio One when X1 came out.  X1 was a disaster.  It was just not ready at the time. 
 
Still got some hardware left over though and use Midi externally to drive it all and it does a great job of it for sure. 

Steinberg Pro 24,,,I remember printing that manual on the atari 1040stfm...dot matrix printer...fast as lightning..compared to PC MS...and less expense on ink...just rewind the carbon tape...and it be good for another manual to print out...
 
Not the easiest program to rap the head around...and the manual was thicker than the phone book.
 
but it worked for midi...Dr T also, and Clab,....... and band in a box, still got that going on today, jammer pro I believe was the competition app for rock and roll it seemed to be a bit better at generating than band in a box...
 
The wonderful work of midi, and all the things that can be controlled with it...is amazing....but ...the life and midi of human is where ...it might be used, but is still not necessary for living...but living with and using can be a experience of joy...when it does work properly, and all is well working with it...it can help get things done with the push program and run,...to do what some cannot do, all at once alone!...I'm glad the be making new midi ci...opens up more channels to route in more lighting, and sliders and hardware...should be fun...this so called future....just hope I be growing back some hair soon...I be old in the mirror...but not in spirit to play with the toys....lol
 
 
Cheers
 
 

oh..you guys on this forum, are the true gold...don't let em fool you....priceless!
 
 

Wow Jeff this is thread is like a cosmic virtual trip through memory lane. The MC 500 is nothing more than a clumsy paper weight without a copy of the system disc. You'd have a better chance of using a jar of mayonnaise as a sequencer/composer without one. I learned early on to include copy the system disc with every box of 3.5 floppy discs I bought. 
 I believe I still have the Roland system files on a CD somewhere, however I no longer have a floppy drive for my computer.
 It wasn't very longer after I enjoyed the very delightful experience and super easy setup of the MIDIMAN 8x8 digitally controlled MIDI patch bay. It was super easy to use because it could store very elaborate user defined MIDI routing scenes to it's own internal memory.
 I still have that as well but don't use it often unless someone brings some vintage synths to  the studio, I'll leave that big clunky 19" rack mount box in the closet. Also in the 19" box of rack stuff is an ancient TC Helicon Voiceworks Plus, Digitech GSP 5 guitar Processor, Digitech DSP 256 multi FX processor that are all patched into the 8x8. Also non MIDI gear such as 2 DBX 166 compressor limiters, DBX Type 2 Noise Reduction, and 2 channel Aphex Aural Exciter Type C2. Always loved that psycho acoustic processing for sound restoration, and Aphex's  BIG BOTTOM can put the THUMP back into thump!
 I don't know why I keep this rack together, other than it just served me well for decades now I can't bear to part with it
 Though I do still use an tiny under the table out of sight little  MIDIMAN 2X2 to keep my vintage Kawai-11 61 key digital synth and Roland Super JV-1080 synth module on deck at all times.
 For those that don't know, MIDIMAN was bought up by M-Audio, and they still manufacture these same exact ROCK SOLID bullet proof USB MIDI interfaces today. Only difference is a bit if superficial graphics designs and they are rebranded M-Audio.
 
 I've always had a great appreciation for the Atari systems, kind of jealous in a way being stuck in the Commodore 64 camp being I owned an Allen & Heath large format mixing desk that only supported the Commodore 64 for mix automation recording on a Tascam 16 track tape machine. Grr.
 Curious how a $10,000 mixer only offered support for a $100 computer. But truth be told $10k was actually dirt cheap for a new large format desk, a tiny fraction of the cost compared to it's nemesis built by Solid State Logic for around $100,000 and not really that far behind. Just like SSL's where a fraction of the cost of Focusrite Redd consoles for around $1,000,000, weren't that far behind.
 Of course A&H and SSL desks were built in factory assembly plants, greatly reducing the price of having Rupert Neve and his band of audio engineering fanatical brainiac's come visit and custom build your mixing desk on site by hand.
 However I was getting pretty close to digital recording sound quality with the A&H/Tascam setup with a bit of help with DBX Type 2 noise reduction, they really bumped up the signal to noise ratio and dropped the noise floor to dead silence by removing all traces of hiss.
 
 I also tried and really like E-magic Logic on the PC. I was very close to purchasing a licensed version when Apple bought or E-Magic and orphaned the Windows version.
A good friend, roommate, and bandmate of mine went to the music store on a quest for Cakewalk upon my recommendation, but came home Logic because the salesman at the music store convinced him it was better. 
 So I said, "Ah huh, ummm, maybe, I have no idea so you are on your own with the exception of any help you may get from your salesman.  And feel free to let me know how that works out for you, and exactly how much better it is."
 So after about a month of listening to him whining about the elevator muzac coming out of the telephone while he sat on hold and witnessing his "Hissy Fits" caused by Logic's learning curve, I started to get bored and I guess as a result, I failed to see the irony and humor in the current situation.
 So I dove in to see what the fuss was all about. After the first night of clumsily figuring out how to navigate around and inside of Logic, we started our first project the very next evening.
 By the time the project was finished I still didn't know if Logic was better, but I indeed grew fond enough for it to go to the music store and inquire about purchasing it with my buddy in tow who pretty much guaranteed he could get me a much better deal if he introduces me to the salesman who sold him Logic.
 As it turned out, the salesman who sold my buddy Logic no longer worked there. But while trying to talk to another salesman who kept getting interrupted by putting people on hold with a near constant stream of telephone calls, AND PROCEEDED TO IGNORE THEM, officially proclaimed and announced that they had no copies of Logic in stock at the moment... 
 Than his eyes lit up when the GRAND EPHONY struck him a-a-a-and he smiled his broadest smile  a-a-a-a-and w-w-w-waved a w-w-w-w-wiggly finger in the air and excitedly asked if he could interest me in the much better DAW from Cakewalk?
 
 And as my buddy and I locked eyes, in about the time span of about 20-40 ms latency----  I saw something that could only be described as the perfect morphing of fear, disgust, and confusion run across his mugshot.
 And so I narrowed my eyes at him and feigned righteous indignation and shouted; "CAKEWALK? CAAAAAKEWAAAAAAAAAALK?? SIR! CAN'T YOU SEE THAT I AM LACTOSE INTOLARENT FOR CRIPE'S SAKE??? I DON'T EVEN PREFER THE TASTE OF MACINTASH APPLES, LET ALONG THE TASTE OF COMPUTER PARPHIRALS! WHAT IN THE NAME OF ZEUS'S BUTTHOLE IS WRONG WITH YOU, KIND SIR? WHERE IS YOUR INTESTINAL FORTITUDE??"
 Well talk about LMAO to the power of 12! We both could barely see our way to walk out of the music store to the car with our eyes tearing up so bad and our lungs gasping for air, and stomachs aching and cramping up of belly laughter. 
 
I too really loathed SONAR X1, and what compounded my anger and frustration was not only the Skylight GUI, I have no words to describe how I felt about the makeover and rearranging of keyboard shortcuts. 
I felt completely like a stranger in a strange world, and felt that's it for Cakewalk, by the time SONAR 8.5 is no longer supported by Windows.
 But when X2 came out and the baker's reverted back to the old keystrokes burned into my brain, I decided to continue on with the upgrades.
 However I continued on with using 8.5 as my primary DAW version, and just practiced with X2 to become familiarized with it.
 It wasn't until X3 was out for a couple of months before trusting it enough to abandon 8.5.
 Well almost, I still have 8.5 running on an old  Windows XP RAIN laptop with a Presonus 8 channel audiobox and it's fairly snappy and  great machine for it's age.
 Only thing I upgraded on it was cloning a newer 1 gb Western Digital Caviar Black 7200 rpm hard drive to it.
 And I also installed an early version of Studio One, which is surprisingly good for a free bundled DAW.
 I still prefer SONAR though.

I used the Atari 1040ST from 1985 till 1998.  I bought the Midex expansion box which cost more than the computer did!  It bolted on the left side of the Atari where the dongle normally went.  What the Midex expander did was:
 
1 Offer 4 slots for 4 dongles so you did not have to swap them out each time you booted up a program
2 Added 4 extra midi OUT ports. With the built in midi port that meant 80 channels of midi control Pretty cool.
3 Added 3 extra Midi INS which merged with the existing Midi IN
4 Added SMPTE timecode generation and reading. You could lockup your Atari to a multi track machine
 
This was seriously powerful.  I was running Cubase on the Atari at the time.  Midi only of course.  I had a Tascam 1/2" 8 track reel to reel machine.  I gave up track 8 to SMPTE timecode.  Cubase always locked to it and fast too.
 
I had a room full of analog and digital synths  (53! many keyboards and 2 full 6 foot racks full of rack synths too) by this time and had all the analog stuff running on midi via Midi to CV/Gate converters and retrofits as well.  I could sequence up to 80 synths at once like this.  I had enough mixers to mix all those signals down to a stereo mix at once or live.  I did not print any of them back to the 8 track but used the other 7 tracks for vocals, solos, live drums etc.  I had a Dolby C stand alone noise reduction system (extremely rare!) on the 7 tape tracks.  They ended up being noiseless and I mean zero tape hiss!  The tracks were as good as digital for S/N ratio.  I also had a separate mixer for the 8 track stuff too. (Yamaha RM804)
 
I produced serious huge professional soundtracks on that setup that I got very well paid for.  Mastered it all down to a Studer B77 1/2 track high speed reel to reel and eventually DAT machine.  Those masters still sound stellar today.
 
In 1998 I moved onto a Win 98 PC with Logic. (333Mhz! WOW) I installed Audiowerk 8 as the sound card and connected to an Emagic Unitor 8 midi interface.  I still have several Roland A800 patch bays which are very powerful in terms of patching.  The synths all remained the same but I just changed the machine driving them all. Unitor also generates code and locks to a multitrack. 
 
I still use this old Win 98 machine as a virtual synth today.  It still sounds amazing, has very low latency! I have taken it up to 1Ghz as well because it was very updatable. (There are 26 virtual synths on that machine)
 
In 2008 I built a Win XP P4 3 GHz machine and ran Sonar Producer 8.5.  Connected the Unitor 8 to that instead. That has an EMU 1212 card inside and that sounds great to this day as well.  It worked great too.  I sold off many of the synths and only kept a few important ones which I still use today.  Sonar really helped me get into virtual instruments very well.  I still have this machine too and use it also as a virtual synth now. (there are over 70 virtual synths on that machine alone)
 
Now I am running big Quad core Win 7 machine with Studio One.  I use a Steinberg Midex 8 midi interface on that.  (there are over 30 virtual synths on my main machine) I also have an iPad docked in a very nice Alesis iDock. (there are 4 virtual synths on that iPad including the amazing PPG Infinite which currently is only an iOS app)  I have three computers now running as virtual synths alongside my main Quad core machine which is very fast and running Studio One.  I use MIDi to talk to all my synths today as well as the 3 computers.  It all works very well.  When everything is on and running it is equivalent to a 12 core machine!  Most of the extra aux computers can be 4 or more virtual synths at once. 
 
The whole is greater than the sum of the individual computers.  There is nothing quite like it in fact.  I can send audio via analog and digital to any computer and back.  The XP machine also has a UAD card installed.  I can access all the UAD stuff live or setup a whole computer doing just a Waves Reverb etc.  The computers are networked as well.  One of the free REA plugs allows you to send audio and back over the network.  It works great and is fast.
I probably have over 150 virtual instruments now.  Many cover the analog gear I had before and sound as good.
 
My first setup in 1980 consisted of a 4 track reel to reel with a Korg MS20, Korg Delta and a KR55 drum machine.  Now 38 years later I have the setup I have just described.  Pretty different would you say.  I also still have all the tape machines.  I have a massive analog tape library which I will have to convert everything over to digital.  Many tapes date back to 1980!  I have produced over 80 albums for artists and still have every 8 track multitrack! I paid for the multitracks and kept them.  Did not give them to the clients.  Imagine the wealth of stuff that is on there now! And what one could do with it too.  I also went ADAT for a period too and still have the machines and the ADAT masters.  I have also created over 320 soundtracks for theatre, film and TV and radio. 
 
I am loving my current setup the most though.  It is by far the most powerful setup I have ever had.  Now it all fits into a real nice smallish control room as well.  I also have a large recording space connected to the control room.
 
Some more midi history.  I could never have done any of it without midi!