So in rock music when double tracking rhythm guitars I'm seeing they're often panned 80-100% L+R so what you get is this big expanse of guitar sound that seems to be everywhere but not really "localized" to any specific physical position on the stage.

Like in modern rock music, when a band has both a rhythm and a lead guitar player the engineers will often double up the rhythm guitar on L+R throughout the song and will have a "third guitar" - the lead - panned right down the center even with the two L+R rhythms still going. I heard GnR did this, with Slash's rhythm on the left and Izzy's on the right throughout the song, with Slash's "third guitar" lead coming down the center.

But what if I wanted something of a hybrid situation where I have some of that "live band on stage" kinda feel to the mix while ALSO having the big wide rhythm guitar that's on both sides for the most part but still has some sense that he's standing a bit to the right of the singer... How do you achieve the best of both of those?

... Because I kinda like those recordings where they had two guitar players and when one of them went off to do a lead the other guitar player is left holding down the rhythm on his own and doesn't remain "two guitars" while the lead is going..

Thank you

Try using Channel Tools to pan one rhythm track with L to left and R to center, and the other rhythm track with L to center and R to right. You'll be able to pick out each guitar individually, but they'll cover the stereo field. This assumes a stereo guitar track, but that can be the same audio in both channels. Let us know if this gives the kind of effect you want.

Try putting a tiny little bit of chorus or phaser on 1 guitar to make it stereo and wider, and then put the second guitar right in the middle!
 
R

There's also doubler plugins which can make wide chorus effects like:
https://www.waves.com/plugins/doubler
https://www.soundtoys.com/product/microshift/
you can use those concepts to build your own FX chain for guitars. But recording another take to make a real double-trackin is a real deal.

I've studied this process quite a bit. Appetite for destruction was a very creative stereo spectrum layout.
Mike Clink was really experimenting at this time more than anything. It just so happened with the sound of the guitars, it works incredibly well. (Izzy on the L / Slash on the R and solos in the C position).
 
 
In your situation you want the guitars to be distinguishable. If not your just making it sound like a wall of mush.
Use different guitars, different /Amps/Amp Sims. Tame the harsh frequency's. Don't be afraid to lay heavy on one side (panned hard Right) you can correct shift in the mix but I've heard great sounds from Heavy guitars on one side in many good songs.
Remember Izzy and Slash both used different guitars and different amps.
 
The key here, is stacking, keeping phase relation and making them sound a little bit different from each other. Using the same guitar/amp on 6 guitar tracks will get you exactly what you ask for...Indistinguishable mush. 
 
 

Anderton
Try using Channel Tools to pan one rhythm track with L to left and R to center, and the other rhythm track with L to center and R to right. You'll be able to pick out each guitar individually, but they'll cover the stereo field. This assumes a stereo guitar track, but that can be the same audio in both channels. Let us know if this gives the kind of effect you want.

Thanks Anderton, would you mind expounding on the steps on that a bit please.. So in Cakewalk, if I'm wanting to have that big wide rhythm guitar while also being able to have that rhythm guitar sound like he's standing to the right of the singer, you're saying I need to have two stereo rhythm guitar tracks to use w/ Channel Tools or just one? And how do I pan a single stereo track like you seem to be referring to? What if I have two mono guitar tracks, could I send them both to a stereo bus where I can process both w/ Channel Tools? I did locate the Channel Tools help file which I can look at later when at my daw, but I'm a bit lost as to what you mean exactly or how to achieve this. Is basically what's being said here is that one track needs to be panned hard L or R and the other track to the center and that's supposed to make it sound like the guitar player is standing to the side of the singer? Thanks

chuckebaby
I've studied this process quite a bit. Appetite for destruction was a very creative stereo spectrum layout.
Mike Clink was really experimenting at this time more than anything. It just so happened with the sound of the guitars, it works incredibly well. (Izzy on the L / Slash on the R and solos in the C position).
 
 
In your situation you want the guitars to be distinguishable. If not your just making it sound like a wall of mush.
Use different guitars, different /Amps/Amp Sims. Tame the harsh frequency's. Don't be afraid to lay heavy on one side (panned hard Right) you can correct shift in the mix but I've heard great sounds from Heavy guitars on one side in many good songs.
Remember Izzy and Slash both used different guitars and different amps.
 
The key here, is stacking, keeping phase relation and making them sound a little bit different from each other. Using the same guitar/amp on 6 guitar tracks will get you exactly what you ask for...Indistinguishable mush. 
 
 

Thanks man, yeah I'm hip to the using different sounds when layering - but re panning of the layered guitars, what I'm hoping to achieve here is a best of both worlds deal where, after the guitars are all recorded and layered up, the rhythm guitar has that wide stereo spread to a degree but ALSO has some localization, which in this case means the big rhythm guitar is perceived to be predominantly to the right of the singer and the 2nd guitar player (not a layer, but a 2nd guitar/lead player) stands to the left of singer and where this is portrayed in the mix too - so I'm not so much talking about the guitar layering process, but rather the after the fact panning and stereo spread and localization of the guitars as previously described. Does that make sense?

Also maybe demo Boz's pan knob.  With the ability to set a frequency at which everything at/below that frequency gets centered and then the rest gets panned as you desire.  It is interesting how this can keep things full yet sounding localized.

Yeah that boz pan knob I'll maybe get it after all, I almost bought it during bf. I do have waves doubler as well as sound toys' microshift and of course channel tools so thanks for the tips

chuckebaby's point is important... very important actually... if the signals are identical, all you will be doing is increasing loudness and/or panning position by playing with those... tweaking with identical signals can introduce phasing if playing with any delay offset, and you can go from clean to mush quickly.
 
Stereoizers that induce mid/side variations can achieve "width" by attenuating one side and making a complimentary enhancement to the other (so it collapses to mono without issues). MStereoSpread has a good teaser discussing this, and to use the "same signal" to achieve this psychoacoustic effect, you will want a plugin that focuses on M/S functionality. There are actually quite a few out and about, iZotope just released a free Vocal Doubler that achieves similar via its "Variation" setting. Before heading down the path of panning and/or delay-based solutions, look for plugins that address this more appropriately with M/S.