• SONAR
  • So...if Sonar lives....
2018/02/24 04:39:07
mixmkr
How many are going to come back and flood feature requests that their "new love" could do, but Sonar hadn't implemented yet?  In other words...  Bend Sonar into its' competition.
Boy.... a thick channel would be nice and an interface that perfectly integrated with the software....even used the same native plugs on their hardware, where you could transfer settings from computer to hardware.
Maybe colors that look like "cotton candy" at first, but the gaudy-ness of it, starts to grow on you...
ha!
2018/02/24 05:48:32
mumpcake
I never liked the way they implemented FX Chains.  I never really wanted a container.   Maybe they could implement chains so that dragging them onto the FX bin gives you the container, Shift-Dragging just drops the effects.
 
I also really like how Studio One and Bitwig have Instrument presets which allow you to drag an instrument and effect chain onto a track to replace what is already there.  So if I had one preset of a Dimension Bass into Guitar Rig on a track, I could easily replace that with a preset of a Kontakt bass going into Amplitube, or similar.
 
 
2018/02/24 05:59:32
Kamikaze
So like track templates, but instrument templates?
2018/02/24 07:24:20
sharke
Well for one, I've been doing some intensive automation envelope drawing in Reaper over the last few days and I can't believe I ever coped with it in Sonar. When you're drawing dozens of envelopes for synth and effect parameters in Reaper, it's so much easier to manage everything. You open a big window which lists all of your effect plugins in a well organized array of collapsible lists, and you simply tick checkboxes for all of the parameters that you want and it creates lanes for them. No more creating them lane by lane and scrolling endlessly through those horrible parameter menus in Sonar to find the one parameter out of 200 you need to automate a synth. And you can choose which ones to show/hide from the same window. You can also resize all of the lanes independently, as big as you like. 
 
Another thing I like in Reaper which it's about time Sonar had is the integrated wet/dry for every effect in your chain. That's so handy. Bitwig takes that a step further and lets you do stuff like split your signal into bands on the same track and branch off separate FX chains for each band, or do the same for mid/side etc. It's so much easier than having to do stuff like this with aux tracks and sends. You get to do it all on the one track, and your projects are so much easier to manage as a result. With Bitwig you can even have recursive fx chains within fx chains, as many times as your computer can handle. You can do stuff like embed an fx chain into a synth, and then save the synth with its fx chain as a preset to use again. Really great stuff. 
 
I'd love to see Sonar take some cues from other DAW's in integrating modern production techniques and making them easier. It has a lot of great stuff to learn from the likes of Ableton, Bitwig, Reaper and Studio One. You don't even have to be into EDM or pop to appreciate this stuff. Times have changed tremendously and people are looking for much more than just a "fancy multitrack recorder" in a DAW. 
 
Oh and fix the long standing bugs which made Sonar such a frustrating experience for many and drove huge numbers of users away! The program does not perform well under pressure, nowhere near as well as other DAW's. I've been working with the same sized project side by side in Reaper and Sonar and honestly Sonar feels like a geriatric with arthritis in comparison. Big eye opener for me, that. I suspect there a large amount of legacy bloat that barely anyone uses any more in Sonar, and it would be great to see it come back as a lean, mean fighting machine. 
2018/02/24 07:55:33
Kamikaze
Finding out that the bakers sought out the expertise of Overture developer and made a plan but returned when Gibson weren't happy, so went back and made another plan, that Gibson rejected was totally frustrating. It swung my feelings on Gibson, and I regained a lot of faith in Cakewalk instantly. I really hope they get the opportunity this time round to draw on his expertise.
 
Not so much from another DAW, though some do it, but more from the experience of looking into replacements on realizing they could all be gone. The Adaptive limiter should be available to buy, the LP Multiband and Eq too. If they were competitive they'd show the quailty of Cakewalks errr BandLabs plugs and raise the profile of Sonar. Concrete Limiter should be in VST form, and Join the CA2A as pucharcable, Quad EQ too. You could get away from the levels and have a bass Product you can add functions and plugs to.
 
Someone posted that Reaper was really difficult, but a response was that there are stacks of training videos, and that made it easy. Third parties should make videos for a constantly changing product. These show people investigating a new DAWs the ease and possibilities, so are advertising as well as training. Having cool function for your DAW appear in youtube feed will prod away are other DAW users to check them out.
 
 
 
 
 
2018/02/24 09:25:56
exitthelemming
Cautiously optimistic about the developments with Bandlab. Now that I've tried other DAWS e.g. Studio One, Samplitude and Reaper it strikes me that for SONAR to have any sustainable longevity for the future the following features are entry level for any Pro DAW in 2018:
 
The ability to have separate buffer sizes set for recording and mixing (like Studio One)
Support for per note controller automation (like Reaper, Cubase and Bitwig)
As noted by the aptly named sharke previously, a complete re-write of the automation writing process
Revamped and reorganized MIDI editing tools with some of the more useful CAL routines available from the editor
The ability to preview an FX chain by hovering over the target track
 
2018/02/24 09:41:19
mettelus
Given what we know so far I am pessimistic about seeing feature requests at any appreciable rate. I expect SONAR to get a makeover to conform to the new status quo first, and only two people have been named who know the code already. Some FRs have already been languishing for years as it is, and I expect them to continue to for some time. I used to read through the FR forum just to keep myself focused on reality, and then it was moved to make it even harder to track. I expect that to remain relatively unchanged.
2018/02/24 10:32:44
exitthelemming
mettelus
Given what we know so far I am pessimistic about seeing feature requests at any appreciable rate. I expect SONAR to get a makeover to conform to the new status quo first, and only two people have been named who know the code already. Some FRs have already been languishing for years as it is, and I expect them to continue to for some time. I used to read through the FR forum just to keep myself focused on reality, and then it was moved to make it even harder to track. I expect that to remain relatively unchanged.


Which is really just another way of saying it's irrelevant who owns Cakewalk as feature requests will never be implemented by anyone, ever and the installation servers will perish in the heat death of the universe anyways....
I think much will depend on the type of target user at which Bandlab is aiming to pitch a relaunched/re-branded Sonar i.e. the niche pro DAW user demographic (unlikely) or the casual dabbler whose looking for a set of more sophisticated tools to get their music onto the cloud via a web based DAW (more likely) However, Bandlab must themselves be in something of a quandary as they know they have a potentially large and loyal Sonar customer base with which they could earn considerable income over the coming years depending on how they weigh up the anticipated income streams from both demographics.
2018/02/24 10:43:39
Kamikaze
I'm hoping the plan is to use the technology from Sonar to beef up the potential and quality of the the tools they currently make, and whilst developing Sonar into a high performance option. In the same way family car manufacturers have racing teams
2018/02/24 10:45:31
marled
I agree with mettelus that it is not the day for feature requests now!

Reading all the new threads and about BandLab I am worried that Sonar could become a consumer karaoke studio, with monthly paying rates and all cloud based storage and features, i.e. this could be the death of the professional studio software!
And we really don't know whether we will be able to use the current version of Sonar any longer if we do not like the new versions!
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