• SONAR
  • Help recording (bouncing?) to a mixed-down stereo track of multitrack Addictive Drums (p.2)
2018/02/26 14:56:23
Billy86
scook
Steev
Bouncing down "tracks" to another track is indeed faster but isn't going to bounce down any effects or settings applied in the buss. So the new tracks and or Aux. channel strips will need further (duplicate) processing to sound the same.
...
You can "FREEZE" the tracks with is actually a non destructible way of bouncing down the tracks on top of themselves, and automatically knocking all FX off line.

One old school time tested guaranteed way to get a committed drums sound is to either Mute all other tracks, aux. sends and busses, and solo all drum channels and busses and "Export" to a stereo .wav file of the same bit depth and frequency as the project.
Than simply "Import" it back into the project, mute or delete all other drum tracks and yer done.

May want to review the link I provided for "Bounce To Track(s)" yourself. Before Freezing was implemented, it was common practice to Bounce and then Archive Tracks.  The difference between freeze and bounce+archive is freezing performs the bounce in the current track(s) instead of creating new tracks. Bounce has a little more control over the output and one cannot freeze a bus because buses cannot contain audio clips. Both bounce and freeze have the same options to apply effects and automation. Bouncing is nondestructive too in as much as the process creates new tracks leaving the source untouched. There is no reason to export a file and re-import the result back into the same project.




I tried the "bounce to track" first, but hit a dead end: with "bouncing to tracks," my obstacle is, I can't bounce the drum bus -- where everything converges (sends, track inserts, another "drum room" reverb sub-bus, etc.). The bounce to track/source doesn't list the drum bus when I select bus as the source of the bounce.
2018/02/26 15:04:44
scook
Did you try your idea of using the master bus as the source for the bounce? The main difference between bounce and export is bounce automatically imports its result into new tracks. It is even possible to access the bounced track outside of the project just like an export because SONAR stores audio as regular wave files. However, avoid manipulating project audio files directly, make a copy or work with them in the project.
 
Set up a test project and play around with bounce and freeze to get familiar with the functions. One can learn a lot by running tests in simple projects. At least that is the method I use most when trying to learn how something works in SONAR.
 
2018/02/26 15:51:12
Steev
 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other. You can also mix and process the entire drums mix to stereo directly within Addictive Drums itself, especially dig in deep with version 2.
 
 Freezing the tracks frees up resources scook, it embeds all signal processing to a .wav file and shuts down all FX processing including all Prochannel modules and keeps your display tidy by keeping track count way down.
Muting the original tracks is necessary either way you do it by bouncing down or import/export for silencing them so you can hear, listen and tweak the level of stereo mix down to sit nicely in the mix. Impossible to do with all the other drum tracks playing at the same time.
 
Personally I find archiving rejected audio tracks that you'll never use again an enormous accumulation of wasted hard drive space as it over bloats the Cakewalk Audio Data folder which over time, exponentially increases search time every time you open a project in SONAR.
 Many gigs of unnecessary storage space of data you will most likely never bother to use again that would best serve new SONAR projects.
 Much faster seek times and virus scans as well.
 
 Once happy with your project you can save it in a Cakewalk Bundle you can keep in a safe place(s) (psst, your computer will eventually die, it can be breached, compromised, it isn't exactly a safe place), and you can delete all the other audio tracks and maybe just save the MIDI which are super tiny files and recover tons of hard drive space.
2018/02/26 16:40:01
scook
It is not possible to mix and process the entire AD2 kit when using SONAR buses though and that is the method used in the OP.
 
Freeze is effectively an in-track bounce AND archive (not mute). When tracks are archived any synths are disconnected, the PC and FX rack are bypassed and if audio tracks, the audio is not streamed during playback All of these functions (except for streaming audio) may be run separately to achieve the same result when muting tracks but why bother?
 
Steev
Personally I find archiving rejected audio tracks that you'll never use again an enormous accumulation of wasted hard drive space as it over bloats the Cakewalk Audio Data folder which over time, exponentially increases search time every time you open a project in SONAR.
 
 Many gigs of unnecessary storage space of data you will most likely never bother to use again that would best serve new SONAR projects.
 Much faster seek times and virus scans as well.
 
 Once happy with your project you can save it in a Cakewalk Bundle you can keep in a safe place(s) (psst, your computer will eventually die, it can be breached, compromised, it isn't exactly a safe place), and you can delete all the other audio tracks and maybe just save the MIDI which are super tiny files and recover tons of hard drive space.

This has nothing to do with the OP and offers extremely poor and outdated project management advice along with assumptions about the project not in the OP. Per-project audio folders have been the preferred method for some time and provide a more robust method for project archiving. Once a project is ready to be archived, "Save As" to a new location with the "Copy all audio with project" option enabled creates a project with only the audio referenced in the project. Depending on the audio clips it might be used to apply trimming in the original project before saving. In fact, this method creates an archive that bundling cannot duplicate. After creating the new project, the old project may be deleted along with the old per-project audio folder. In short, the methods used 15 years ago may not be the best advice today.
 
 
2018/02/26 20:46:59
Steev
I don't think you're comprehending what I wrote about freezing tracks, snook.
 And you were the one who brought up Archiving in the first place, which was never mentioned by the OP, nor does it have anything to do with creating a stereo drums track.
 
I never implied freezing was muting tracks, I merely advised muting all frozen tracks to hear and mix the stereo mixed or bounced drums.
 
And out dated or not, bundle files stored on CD and DVD can last 100's of years longer then any computer can
I have Cakewalk Bundle files dating back 20+ years, and digitized audio projects originally recorded to multi track tape dating back to 1971. All my tapes had been digitized, because just like computers, tape recordings die with age.
 
Saving a bundle file in a completely different location is a much safer, simpler, and better way to save a project then duplicate archives within a SONAR project on a file cluttered dead computer hard drive. PERIOD!
 
 
2018/02/26 21:47:00
scook
Steev
I don't think you're comprehending what I wrote about freezing tracks, snook.
 And you were the one who brought up Archiving in the first place, which was never mentioned by the OP, nor does it have anything to do with creating a stereo drums track.

OK stevie, don't forget you brought up freeze first and mentioned muting tracks. I wanted to clarify some of the nuances of freeze which include archive.
 
Steev
I never implied freezing was muting tracks, I merely advised muting all frozen tracks to hear and mix the stereo mixed or bounced drums.

Never said you did. You did suggest needlessly complex solutions to the OP based on old tech some dating back to tape.
 
Steev
And out dated or not, bundle files stored on CD and DVD can last 100's of years longer then any computer can
I have Cakewalk Bundle files dating back 20+ years, and digitized audio projects originally recorded to multi track tape dating back to 1971. All my tapes had been digitized, because just like computers, tape recordings die with age.
 
Saving a bundle file in a completely different location is a much safer, simpler, and better way to save a project then duplicate archives within a SONAR project on a file cluttered dead computer hard drive. PERIOD!
 

No doubt you have some age on you. The methods you recommend have not been standard practice in years. Claims of good results with bundles is not enough. Bundle corruption threads reported on this forum are proof enough the format is not suitable for archiving. All media are subject to error, not just tape. Bundles are fragile and any error causes the bundle to fail during unpacking. At this time, recovery is all but impossible. At least with a project and per-project audio files one stands a better chance of recovery after media or software failure. Bundles are not and have never been a better archival solution than making a copy a project with a per-project audio folder. Recall the "Save As" option can create a complete project that only contains a current copy of the project and relevant audio data. Aside from backward compatibility and a few narrowly defined use cases, the bundle process can be at best considered redundant. Moreover, bundles are incapable of storing all the data in a project file. Try bundling a project containing audiosnap data. The fact that bundles are incapable of non-destructively storing projects, their catastrophic failure when they do fail and Cakewalk's provision of more robust methods for storing projects offline, the choice is simple. Thanks for your input though.


2018/02/27 00:58:16
clintmartin
Can he not bounce the entire mix, but mute everything except for the drums?
2018/02/27 01:04:02
scook
Yes, the OP almost got there but failed to make the connection between export and bounce. I hinted at that very solution in my first post and again in post #12.
2018/02/27 01:31:33
Billy86
Hi. OP here... Well, this has been an interesting thread, which is what makes this community so vital. Love the impassioned positions, strategies and approaches. 
 
I've done what I always knew I could do: bounce the master bus and and mute everything I don't want. I just thought there had to be an easier, less tedious and time-consuming way. Like simply bouncing a solo'd drum bus.
 
Alas, no. I DO find it curious that the master bus is available as a bus option to bounce, but none of my other eight buses are. I was wondering if I was missing something on that issue, because it makes no sense to me.
 
Thanks to everyone who weighed in! 
Billy
 
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