• SONAR
  • Do we OWN our project files? (p.2)
2018/01/12 10:47:19
subtlearts
I suspect that even if there is strictly speaking some legal fine print somewhere in the EULA to discourage tinkering with the project files to work out a way to extract meaningful information from them, it's on pretty thin legal ground. If you create a piece of software that doesn't actually alter any Sonar code, that doesn't even alter the CWP file, just reads it (which we do, legally, every time we open one in Sonar) and outputs another file that can be opened in another DAW, what have you done? You haven't altered any file the EULA prohibits you from altering. And the code you write is yours, not theirs. 
 
If you were using tons of Cakewalk branding to piggyback off of their marketing in order to sell shedloads of a commercial product, then there would be a case to be made against you, but I think it's pretty clear that's neither the reality nor the intention of what you're doing.  
 
So do we 'own' our project files? That's an interesting question and while I'm not a legal expert, I suspect a strong case could be made that we do, at least substantially. As you touch on above, what about a WAV file or an MP3 that I create of my own composition... I don't own the file format, but I definitely *do* own the intellectual property contained in the file; even if extracting that information requires software that I do not own the rights to. If ownership of the file format implied ownership or legal rights pertaining to the contents, the file format owner could make a claim on all IP of anything stored in that format. What if I store it in multiple formats? Who owns it then?
 
If I sell you a bottle, I cannot then claim that anything you put in that bottle is mine. If I try to put that in the EULA of the bottle which you agree to by using it, and then try to defend that right in court, how do you think it will go? At the end of the day, we *have* to own the rights to the contents of our media files, regardless of who created or who owns the file format, because otherwise the entire edifice of copyright and IP law is rendered meaningless. 
 
azslow3
The specification can be "deducted".

 
At the risk of being pedantic, the word you're looking for here is 'deduced'... 'deducted' means something a little different. 
2018/01/12 10:51:08
pwalpwal
fwiw, i don't consider the cwp format a "media" file as such, more a "media metadata" file, or "project" file, although i suppose that as it embeds any project midi into the cwp it could be considered such
2018/01/12 10:52:33
pwalpwal
if i ever need a reverse-engineer, i'll be pming azslow3
 
2018/01/12 10:53:09
azslow3
pwalpwal
do it until you're legally challenged and then stop doing it, seems to be the modern way

That is dangerous approach. If the module is not "free", there will be limited numbers of it and so the situation can be clarified by a small fee pro instance to whoever claim some rights (it can be that CW is using some 3d party library for CWP and so the call can be from other company...)
But in case it is public and spread, someone can "get me".
 
I mean it seems like I am able to help people transfer own projects. And it is fun for me to do so. But I do not want cross any borders by doing that.
2018/01/12 11:16:37
pwalpwal
your translator app sits outside sonar, and so long as its use requires a licensed sonar to be installed i reckon you're good to go, please do studio one translator first!
(how do apps like chicken translator handle this stuff?)
2018/01/12 11:18:41
pwalpwal
and fwiw, all these "borders" are still being defined in the digital world, law is so slow to catch up, just go for it, "be an innovator!"
 
2018/01/12 12:09:09
azslow3
subtlearts
If I sell you a bottle, I cannot then claim that anything you put in that bottle is mine. If I try to put that in the EULA of the bottle which you agree to by using it, and then try to defend that right in court, how do you think it will go? At the end of the day, we *have* to own the rights to the contents of our media files, regardless of who created or who owns the file format, because otherwise the entire edifice of copyright and IP law is rendered meaningless. 

I have not found any statements about any output files in CW EULA. But ...
 

azslow3
The specification can be "deducted".

At the risk of being pedantic, the word you're looking for here is 'deduced'... 'deducted' means something a little different.

You are correct about my knowledges in (not computer) languages
 
Ownership and other laws, patents are copyrights not always follow common logic. Remember drying a cat in microwave, "too hot coffee", etc.
And in the software world, patents for mouse double-clicking, representing any process by an icon on computer screen, etc.
For you bottle example... there was Flash format with fancy EULA.
2018/01/12 12:14:55
azslow3
pwalpwal
your translator app sits outside sonar, and so long as its use requires a licensed sonar to be installed i reckon you're good to go, please do studio one translator first!

Studio One is out of equation. Reaper is friendly for such translators while Studio One is not.
AAtranslator can work with Reaper and Studio One, but no FX and no MIDI.
2018/01/12 12:24:35
mettelus
The ProjectScope utility already drills into the cwp's and no one had a cow about it. It is a simple utility to assist users. The ability to import those into other DAWs (and even a repair utility for those who have had cwp's go bad) would be wonderful.
 
One of the ways Word put WordPerfect out of business was to import wpd files, so there are numerous precedents. The actual "damage" was that Word was given away for free until MS annihilated the competition.
 
Bottom line to legal action is that a company is only going to pursue damage mitigation or loss of revenue (neither of which apply). If they cannot get a dime from you (if you don't sell it, there is no claim against you) and you are not damaging their product (which they already publicly bailed on), then they are not going to spend millions in legal fees to recoup nothing. Also in such a setting, a company who has proven no corporate ethics with conduct, you would come off like a saint for providing a free service to benefit customers who were abandoned.
2018/01/12 13:00:14
ronkenobi
Im the owner of cakewalk Platinum
The Info in splat shows me that.

And im the owner of all my projects
© 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account