• Techniques
  • More separation with individual reverbs (p.3)
2017/05/25 10:31:37
pilutiful
batsbrew
still....
mud.
LOL
 
 
it kinda dismisses the entire logic behind even having reverb...
 
you are trying to set a sound in a 'space'
 
how many spaces do you really need?
and where in the real world would you ever hear those spaces all together in one stereoscape?
 
so, i personally question the effectiveness, or even the choice of it...
 
but, like a lot of things in life,
there are no rules.
 
i'd love to hear a GOOD example of a mix with multiple reverbs like that.
 




this is an incredibly dense mix with many tracks...I use reverb more to give the tracks a little bit of flavor - at least for the instruments. Separation is hard to achieve (at least for me!), but I feel this trick helped. I ran out of frequencies for complementary EQ :)
My tip is probably more for very dense mixes....
 
Kamikaze
Did you watch the Fab Dupont Video on three reverbs I linked?




Yes I did. But I would say this is more good for acoustic (not dense) songs like the one they he was mixing :)
2017/05/25 10:49:40
interpolated
I don't think using more than one reverb is always unrealistic. Say you are using 3 variations of the same environment through a convolution reverb. For example, Hall A Front TS, Hall A Rear TS and Hall A Mid TS (True Stereo) on separate mix busses.  The end results could be summed to stereo or routed to surround channels. Obviously this will be better for more high resolution recordings like Classical or SACD masters.
 
Mud always occurs in the same frequency range which is why it's a good idea to mix out that on individual tracks where is a lot of shared frequencies especially the lower end of the drums like Kick, Snare and Tom. Even hi-hats and cymbals carry some low-frequency energy that need to be equalised out.
 
Algorithmic reverbs do have a lot more flexibility though. I have one such thing which combines both although I am a bit short on alternative IR (impulse response) for it.
 
On my soundcloud (soundclown) page, I have one upload which uses two reverbs and the effect is subtle but it makes a pyschoacoustic difference when you listen to one reverb alone compared to two.
 
Anyway that's what I thunk.
2017/05/25 11:20:29
interpolated
It seemed more like an UAD demo that video. That EMT 140 plate is good for vocals indeed and I would use it more if I had a better DSP processor.
2017/05/25 14:02:05
glennstanton
one trick for placement (of anything in the mix) is to use the surround feature - 2.1 and then you can set width depth etc of any track - so experiment with setting the room reverb width to extend to just outside the "walls" and room delay just inside with a feed to the room reverb. :-) also, individual reverbs on the vox buss or drums buss, or even instruments (some guitars have reverb on their amps...) can increase the separation as well as the overall feel for each. automating the reverb levels, parameters, eq, etc can add interest. especially on EDM or acoustic.
2017/05/25 14:02:05
glennstanton
duplicated previous post for some reason...
2017/05/25 19:10:25
Jeff Evans
I don't mind this approach either of having 3 reverb setups.  It works quite well.  The tight room sound can be added in here and there on certain things.  It helps to bring them forward a little and you can then turn them down a little too. The signal has got bigger.
 
A nice reverb like Liquid Sonics Reverberate is a good thing.  They have a whole extensive section on small rooms which sound stellar.  Don't forget you can also edit a convolution reverb sound too.  I can fine tune those nice real sounding spaces.  Reverberate and others have made extensive IR libraries that actually cover all the plate reverbs too.  Including the well known plates and things like the Lexicon 480.
 
Another very interesting plugin is this one.  Panangement by Auburn Sounds.
 
https://www.auburnsounds.com/products/Panagement.html
 
This is a very interesting plugin and I got onto this watching an interesting video on mixing.  This plugin adds front to back depth to any reverb plugin and gives you extra control over the depth of the reverb.  Gives you that front to back space as well as left to right.  This plugin makes your reverbs sound a little more natural.  Any that you may have.  When you put drums say into a small drum room and use this it sounds like you are walking around the drums and away from them too if you so desire.  Of course all the parameters of this plugin can be modulated and your moves recorded, edited and played back.  That its pretty cool once you get into it.  Adding motion to a reverb space. 
 
2017/05/26 02:35:52
Kamikaze
I always turn reverbs on synths off, and use my Reverb busses. Some where I've been on the fence with this is the room mics in AD 2, which is essentially a recorded reverb. If you use the room mics and a reverb buss, it's pretty much using more than one reverb. It makes sense to me to keep these  if you are using the whole kit, then the room mics make a kit sound together, but I mix and match my kits, and they are recorded in a number of studios. I'm pretty clueless of which is my favourite kit, as I scroll through the snares, to the one I like and scroll through the hats again. So the roommics will end up being room mics from different rooms.
 
I picked up SampleModellings Brass before Christmas, which are anechoic samples. Sample modelling implemented an early reflections reverb to help these sit in mixes easier after feedback.   I've been turning these off too. Opting to choose a buss reverb (Fab's 'The Office'). Analogue (Virtual) are sonically anechoic too. So mixing these sounds makes sense to give them the same early reflections.
 
For me Reverb isn't about Emulating a real room, but creating an atmosphere and pulling sounds together. If I was mixing a Modern Jazz group, or string quartet, then maybe I would want to simulate a believable space. But I guess guys that do this don't use reverbs anyway, but room mics and a good room. Seems that when reverb Chambers were used, they were for effect, and not for creating realism. Same for plate and spring reverbs. I think as soon as you place a you bass in the middle of a mix, you are not looking to emulate reality, but just maximize your mix.
 
Having 3 reverbs to me, creates opportunities for removing 'mud' not creating it. You don't have to use all three on every sound. If you want a sound to have a reverb, but not have too much of tail, then apply some of the 'Ambience and  'room' and no plate. If something is part of the backgrounds space, then more 'Plate or hall' and some 'room' but no 'Ambience/Office'. So using less of eachs reverb, but the blend creates the space. and different applications to each of the three helps create separation. You can then add further EQ to these to remove unwanted energy and deal with clashes.
 
 
 
 
2017/05/26 02:49:17
timidi
I've used more than 1 reverb for a while. Sometimes 3 or 4. Lately, I've been thinking, with all that mush going on, even at minimal levels, there's probably lots of weird things happening with all the different dispersions of different reverbs interacting with each other. Such as, phasing and masking. 
I do notice a certain cleanliness in the sound using just 1 (or none) reverb. Fill in the rest with delay.
 
Just a thought.
 
2017/05/26 20:29:58
jamesg1213
batsbrew
 
 
i'd love to hear a GOOD example of a mix with multiple reverbs like that.
 




 
This is a bit old, but Paul Russell knows his stuff, used to post here a lot. I bought this album at the time, it sounds beautiful.
 

 
Sometimes it's not about the 'real world' it's about creating a mood.
2017/05/26 20:40:58
interpolated
Impressivo
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