• SONAR
  • Static when playing through audio fx plug-in (p.2)
2016/10/24 16:18:14
rcklln
Based on the description I focused on the input monitoring and it's output, but here are some other things that might be worth trying out.
 
In preferences-->audio-->driver settings see if deselecting the 64 bit precision engine changes anything.
 
Recreate the aud.ini file (run a search on the c drive to find it) by renaming the original. Sonar will create a new one when it starts up and you can always go back to the original if needed.
 
If you end up feeling like you need to reinstall, check out this link if you haven't already
http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/2007013372/Clean-Install-All-Cakewalk-Software
 
 
 
 
 
 
2016/10/24 18:55:22
musiccontinuum
chuckebaby
I had the issue using a Focusrite Scarlett as well.
did you try maybe a new USB cable ? not just the port, but a new cable ?
Though again...Don't rule out a bad USB port on your PC. they wear out.
What I did was set up a breaker so I didn't need to plug/unplug my USB cable in/out 500 times a month.
one switch turns on the interface, my speakers, my control surface=Mackie MCU.
 
when my USB port went bad, OMG it drove me nuts (pretty much what you are experiencing )
I was moving any wireless item 20 feet away from my studio.
when my wireless was the issue, I figured that out here.

 
Your thinking the same things I am. I tried a few USB cables, didn't correct anything. I also physically disconnected my UPS power supply and my USB to Midi cable, but didn't help. The thing that is throwing me is it not happening with another DAW or Amplitude. And it's not just with Focusrite, happens with Tascam as well.
 
chuckebaby
What I did was set up a breaker so I didn't need to plug/unplug my USB cable in/out 500 times a month.
one switch turns on the interface, my speakers, my control surface=Mackie MCU.
 
when my USB port went bad, OMG it drove me nuts (pretty much what you are experiencing )
I was moving any wireless item 20 feet away from my studio.
when my wireless was the issue, I figured that out here.


I'm stating to suspect that it might be a hardware failure. I found lots of issues with graphic cards, more related to service interrupts issues. I do see the service interrupt service in my Windows Resource Monitor running some threads. Although, it's hit and miss, meaning that the static doesn't always correlate to system interrupts showing.
 
chuckebaby
Do you have any plug ins that are stand alone plug ins ? Guitar rig that you can open up on the desktop ?
possibly download a freebie somewhere and test that out.
it would also help if you could do a test run in Cubase

 
Thanks for the links for bus routing in Cubase, which I haven't had chance to try yet. I also tried Podium, didn't have the issue with it or Cubase. I tried Amplitude 3 stand-alone and had no static. I then tried Amplitude 3 loaded in Plat. and the static occurred.
 
rcklln
Based on the description I focused on the input monitoring and it's output, but here are some other things that might be worth trying out.
 
In preferences-->audio-->driver settings see if deselecting the 64 bit precision engine changes anything.
 
Recreate the aud.ini file (run a search on the c drive to find it) by renaming the original. Sonar will create a new one when it starts up and you can always go back to the original if needed.
 
If you end up feeling like you need to reinstall, check out this link if you haven't already
http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/2007013372/Clean-Install-All-Cakewalk-Software

 
I just tried enabling the 64-bit (I have it off by default), but didn't help. I'm going to try recreating the aud.ini file. I totally dread performing a reinstall, but thanks for the clean install link. Being that the issue also happens in X3, I hesitate to perform the re-install with Plat. 
 
Do either of you know if X3 and Plat would use the same audio engine (like DLL file) between both platforms?
 
Here is a sound bit of the sound recorded from my speakers (Rokit 5's): Static
2016/10/24 20:09:21
rcklln
It does sound like EMI, CPU, some kind of driver issue, or even pending windows updates, but because it is not being recorded I am running out of ideas. I agree that a reinstall may not change anything.
 
Do you have multiple audio device drivers installed and enabled in preferences?
 
4 likes on your static already, got to love soundcloud.
 
edit corrected typo
2016/10/25 00:18:56
musiccontinuum
rcklln
Do you have multiple audio device drivers installed and enabled in preferences?

Yes, I did (took me a while to remember). I did this after I received Scarlette. I removed everything from previous and started fresh. I did this with my Tascam US 2x2. Unrelated (at least I think so) to this post, my system would crash (BSOD). I haven't had this issue  after updating drivers for my other devices. I'm going to try the Behringer UM2, because I think it didn't produce static, although, I think it had drop out problems (if it ain't one thing it's another).
 
rcklln
4 likes on your static already, got to love soundcloud.

No kidding. Of course, all four of them are authentic members
2016/10/25 03:07:36
robert_e_bone
Please launch Sonar and list the following information:
 
1) Driver Mode  (Edit>Preferences>Audio>Playback and Recording)
 
2) Record Bit-Depth (Edit>Preferences>File>Audio Data)
 
3) Sample Rate in Sonar (Edit>Preferences>Audio>Driver Settings)
 
4) ASIO Reported Latency values (Also shown in Edit>Preferences>Audio>Driver Settings)
 
5) ASIO Buffer Size (This one may be different, depending on your audio interface, as some allow display/change of their settings through the ASIO Panel button in Edit>Preferences>Audio>Driver Settings, and some don't respond to clicking on the ASIO Panel button and instead have a program that will either sit in the Windows System Tray at the bottom right of your display screen - OR you may have to launch the program for your audio interface User Interface.  Additionally, some audio interfaces use ASIO Buffer Size, and some use a slider with numbers from 1-10, and some others use a different scale - like 1-6, and they may also call it some other term than ASIO Buffer Size).
 
Typically, a purposefully built audio interface will likely supply ASIO drivers, and you would likely find the best audio interface performance using a Driver Mode in Sonar of ASIO.  Additionally, when recording in Sonar, you would likely want to set the ASIO Buffer Size to something like 128 or possibly 64 - but I would start with 128 as a reasonable balance.  (When finished with recording and moving on to the mixing phase of a Sonar project - it is usually best to adjust the ASIO Buffer Size WAY higher - such as 1024 or even 2048).
 
Most folks seem to record at a Sample Rate of 48 k (48000), or 44.1 k (44100), and a Record Bit-Depth of 24 bits.  CD's always end up at 44.1 k Sample Rate, and 16-bit depth.  Lots of folks - likely most - use a Sample Rate of 48000 (48 k) and 24-bit depth, and then at the end, export it back down to 44.1 and 16-bit.
 
You also want to avoid using certain kinds of plugins when recording, such as plugins that use Look-Ahead Processing/Buffering or Linear Phase Processing.  This would include things like Convoluted Reverb plugins.  The reason for this is that these kinds of plugins will frequently REALLY spike your DPC Latency and cause audio performance glitches.  It is better to use a smaller number of plugins when recording - and that allows you to keep your ASIO Buffer Size low - which helps keep 'lag' and audio dropouts and such from happening.  Once you begin mixing (and you change your ASIO Buffer Size to something like 1024 or 2048), THEN you can use plugins that are FAR more robust - such as a convoluted reverb, etc., since you aren't trying to record in time with playback at that point - you are simply mixing what is already there.
 
Sorry for all the typing - I have no idea how much of any of the above you know or don't know - so I am trying to include it in case you weren't aware of some of it.  Please forgive me if I have made you read a bunch of stuff you already know. :)
 
Bob Bone
 
2016/10/25 04:03:48
mudgel
Different versions of Sonar are completely seperate. They share some Sonar specific utilities but no .dll files and the Sonar executable files are each seperate.
2016/10/25 22:46:57
musiccontinuum
robert_e_bone
Please launch Sonar and list the following information:
1) Driver Mode  (Edit>Preferences>Audio>Playback and Recording)
 
2) Record Bit-Depth (Edit>Preferences>File>Audio Data)
 
3) Sample Rate in Sonar (Edit>Preferences>Audio>Driver Settings)
 
4) ASIO Reported Latency values (Also shown in Edit>Preferences>Audio>Driver Settings)
 
5) ASIO Buffer Size (This one may be different, depending on your audio interface, as some allow display/change of their settings through the ASIO Panel button in Edit>Preferences>Audio>Driver Settings, and some don't respond to clicking on the ASIO Panel button and instead have a program that will either sit in the Windows System Tray at the bottom right of your display screen - OR you may have to launch the program for your audio interface User Interface.  Additionally, some audio interfaces use ASIO Buffer Size, and some use a slider with numbers from 1-10, and some others use a different scale - like 1-6, and they may also call it some other term than ASIO Buffer Size).
 
Bob Bone



1) Driver Mode - ASIO
2) Record Bit-Depth - 16
3) Sample Rate in Sonar - 44100
4) ASIO Reported Latency values:
  • Input: 5.8 sec / 256 samples
  • Output: 15.7 sec / 693 samples
  • Total Roundtrip: 21.5 sec / 949 samples
5) ASIO Buffer Size - 5.8 sec / 256 samples
 
robert_e_bone
Sorry for all the typing - I have no idea how much of any of the above you know or don't know - so I am trying to include it in case you weren't aware of some of it.  Please forgive me if I have made you read a bunch of stuff you already know. :)

Never hurts to restate information. It seems like it's the obvious that gets overlooked.
 
I couldn't get the images to link from dropbox so here are the links:
Driver settings: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jvr06mt0cgp51oe/Driver%20Settings.JPG?dl=0
Playback and Recording: https://www.dropbox.com/s/upgagttumju7o5f/Playback%20and%20Recording.JPG?dl=0
Sync and Caching: https://www.dropbox.com/s/f5pvjpg1zw638xh/Sync%20and%20Caching.JPG?dl=0
Tascam settings: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uhm2sdsnrcyyo33/Tascan%20Settings%20Panel.JPG?dl=0
 
 
2016/10/26 02:42:02
Kalle Rantaaho
I haven't followed the thread, but listened to that snippet of the static.
To me it really sounds like a mechanical problem (broken speaker, loose wiring), the way it occurs.
I assume that's been discussed and eliminated, but anyways...
2016/10/26 13:42:27
robert_e_bone
Your ASIO Buffer Size seems large for doing recording, as your latency results in a lag between playing a note and hearing it back.  I would suggest when you record to try setting it to 128.  (and either 1024 or 2048 when mixing).
 
Can you please list the plugins that are loaded into this particular project?
 
And, as a test, do the issues go away when you bypass all effects?  You can test this by hitting the letter 'E' on your computer keyboard - it toggles on/off the bypassing of all your loaded effects.  IF your issues stop when you do this, it points to one or more of the loaded plugins being problematic -usually that a given plugin is meant to be used during mixing rather than during recording (because of high latency or CPU demands).  If that is the case - either bypass your effects while recording, OR swap out the more demanding effects (convoluted reverb, linear phase type) until you finish recording, then jack up your ASIO Buffer Size and THEN load in the more robust effects that you had swapped out).
 
And, if you have WiFi on this computer - I suggest you try turning it off or temporarily disabling it in Windows Device Manager and then launching your Sonar session.  After finishing your Sonar session, turn WiFi back on or enable it again in Windows Device Manager.  (many WiFi drivers seem to really spike DPC Latency, which causes problems with streaming audio).
 
Bob Bone
 
2016/10/26 23:10:13
musiccontinuum
mudgel
Different versions of Sonar are completely separate. They share some Sonar specific utilities but no .dll files and the Sonar executable files are each separate.

Good to know - thanks.
 
Kalle Rantaaho
I haven't followed the thread, but listened to that snippet of the static.
To me it really sounds like a mechanical problem (broken speaker, loose wiring), the way it occurs.
I assume that's been discussed and eliminated, but anyways...

It does, but the issue is that I don't get this static when playing a stand-alone plugin (e.g. Amplitude), or using Cubase or Podium. Happens with Sonar X3 and Platinum.
 
robert_e_bone
Your ASIO Buffer Size seems large for doing recording, as your latency results in a lag between playing a note and hearing it back.  I would suggest when you record to try setting it to 128.  (and either 1024 or 2048 when mixing).

Moved setting to 128 but still static.
 
robert_e_bone
Can you please list the plugins that are loaded into this particular project?

 
For guitar, I have TH3 and that's it. In TH3, I'll load [Banks] TH3 Cakewalk > [Presets] Metal World, Knife, with Reverb and Delay component. Here is the TH3 screen shot
 
robert_e_bone
And, as a test, do the issues go away when you bypass all effects?  You can test this by hitting the letter 'E' on your computer keyboard - it toggles on/off the bypassing of all your loaded effects.  IF your issues stop when you do this, it points to one or more of the loaded plugins being problematic -usually that a given plugin is meant to be used during mixing rather than during recording (because of high latency or CPU demands).  If that is the case - either bypass your effects while recording, OR swap out the more demanding effects (convoluted reverb, linear phase type) until you finish recording, then jack up your ASIO Buffer Size and THEN load in the more robust effects that you had swapped out).

In the Static link above, the last part of the sound has the plugin off. It mostly happens with over drive presets with plugins, such as TH3, TH2 and LePou. Does occur with clean presets settings but fewer and takes longer for the static to start. I can also get it to be a problem to start quicker when I load a drum plugin, EZDrummer or AD2. AD2 makes it worse quicker.
 
robert_e_bone
And, if you have WiFi on this computer - I suggest you try turning it off or temporarily disabling it in Windows Device Manager and then launching your Sonar session.  After finishing your Sonar session, turn WiFi back on or enable it again in Windows Device Manager.  (many WiFi drivers seem to really spike DPC Latency, which causes problems with streaming audio).

Tried that. I also disabled my network completely (in device manager). I was using Wifi, then turned that off. Now I'm hardwired. But I disabled all network, both wifi and network card, but didn't help. I also changed my performance settings for my video card. I thought it was my UPS (USB connection so that it can shut down my system), and unplugged that, but didn't fix it.
 
Maybe related, I tried again tonight (using a new cable and different guitar) and static occurred again. This time Sonar went into "robot mode" and eventually blue screened. This has happened before, but only with my Tascam US 2x2, which I was using at the time.
 
Robot mode sound clip: https://soundcloud.com/joncoble/static-2 The first part is AD2 drums. Middle section is distorted guitar, last part is plugin off, so guitar direct. Then BSOD. The dump file was sent to support.
 
I also was able to capture when Sonar was hung (a separate time from the crash):
Hang report for C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\SONAR Platinum\SONARPLT.exe
Generated by using WhatIsHang on 10/26/2016 7:29:42 PM
Web site: http://www.nirsoft.net
Remarks:
* The program hangs in a single system call. You can look in the call stack and  stack data to find out which API function cause this hang.
Strings found in the stack:
<SIZE>38, 38</SIZE>
        </MAI
acspMSFT
user-keyboard-l1-1-1
Afx:000000014000000



I can't decipher what it's saying.
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