Hi all,

I've found a potentially great singer and he seems to be happy enough with getting a payment on a "Work for hire basis".  I've just been asked now if the track was to be picked up by TV or manages to sell allot, what would happen then.

Now I suspect he is seeing if he can agree on getting a % of royalties also (if it was successful).  I can understand this but I'm a little cautious as I'd prefer a one off "Work for hire" and leave it at that.

I'm looking for some advice on how best to answer him.  I have written the Music and Lyrics and the guide melody and his contribution will only be as a session singer.  So I really feel like offering him a % also would be selling myself short.  


Any advice on how best to negotiate this without sounding stingy or alienating him from what I consider a reasonable agreement as it is?


Much thanks for any help,
Ste

So yes... you will need a work for hire agreement signed. You should always agree and sign it before the studio work begins. 

How the details work is between you two. 

You can pay him a straight up session fee for the song. He sings it and gets his pay. Normally between $50 to $150 depending on the amount of work. He signs away ALL his rights to get that paycheck. What you do with it then is all yours. He has no future interest in the song and no rights to it. The agreement should specify that clearly.  He's selling you his rights...all of them.

OR....

You can agree to give him a percentage of future potential income.....if any.  I have worked this sort of agreement with a few singers. We drew up an agreement and signed it, that I had complete control and all rights to exploit the song. They had no rights to use the song. they received no money for the session work BUT they were entitled to a fixed percentage of income from the song as a session singer, with no claim to ownership or writing credits. If the song is published, used in film & TV or recorded by an artist, they will make far more than they would have made if they had simply been paid as a session singer. 


Some singers will go for that and some will not. If they are working session singers, they will likely want cash up front and not worry with the residuals. A friend who is local, sings well, and is not singing for a living is more likely to take the percentage offer. 

That is how the business operates. Nothing stingy about it. You could send your backing track with a rough vocal and copy of the lyrics to any demo studio in Nashville Tn, and have a pro demo singer sing it for under $100 and they would sign the agreement stating that they relinquish any and all claims to the music. That's a fact!  Session singers work cheap, and you can get one all day long under $100 for a song.... They figure about 1 hr to lay it down and get it right. 


If he starts to sound like he's changing his mind and getting greedy.....like wanting up front and a percentage..... tell him nicely that you thank him for the time he did singing, but that is not going to happen.....especially if he's already been paid. 

Of course... it's totally up to you....and if he's a really good singer and helps with writing too.... it may be worth the percentage.

Thanks Ghacker.  That is excellent advice indeed.  I could be being a little over cautious about it as we have yet to do the work but I just hope to answer him in a proper fashion.


That "Work for Hire" agreement you mentioned.  Is that a generic document or did you create it yourself?.  I wondering do you know where I may be able to find such a template document?  Obviously I tailor it to my needs.


A sincerest thanks for you advice.  This is all a little new to me.  So appreciated!

I found some online and made some modifications to them...check your PM. 

Great!

Here is a song that I had recorded for me several years ago through a Nashville studio  ... exactly as guitarhacker described.  The whole thing cost me $130 without giving up any rights.  Listen to the quality of the vocals.

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=7736225&q=hi&newref=1

Thanks Quantum.  Yes quality vocal alright.  Something I may keep in mind for sure...

The cool thing about recording in Nashville in the many demo studios there....

First, the sheer number of studios and singers all seeking jobs, keeps prices quite low.

Second, the majority of the singers there are trying to make a career in country music. 

Folks like Trisha Yearwood and Garth Brooks among many, many other big stars ALL worked in the demo studios singing on hundreds of demos before becoming big stars in their own right. 

I'm no expert but here's how it usually works here: work for hire you get paid you do your thing and leave. Most session guys are happy with this arrangement. It doesn't get complicated until the session guys are starting to help with the arrangements or doing actual song writing. Then they deserve either more money up front or a back-end taste. Yes then you want something in writing. I don't know about the boilerplate contracts on the internet. Best to get something from an actual attorney who is fluent in the music biz lingo. Check the ASCAP or BMI licensing websites they usually explain this in better detail. Shouldn't be hard to find a lawyer with a quick Google search. Since hardly any of my clients are making any significant money selling music, it's a non issue. In the big leagues it's an issue. I understand that. But for weekend warrior work, I discard those who get greedy and find other session guys. Oddly, it seems like the guys with the most schooling are the easiest to deal with. It's the local yokels with delusions of grandeur you have to watch out for.

Oh dear ,sometimes it can get so dramatic especially when it comes to the "work for hire term" am glad i was able to get a songwriter/composer and singer who was able to write and sing a song as a gift for my wife on her birthday and also created a beautiful music for my youtube page,
Now i breathe free whenever i need a songwriter/singer as he is now my official songwriter/singer . for anything atall, i am confident and relaxed as i dont have any problem with agreements or wanting to get a % for royalties as its all "work for hire"