probably 75% of that explosive guitar sound.....  is actually the drum sound.
 
there are so many good amp models out there....even free ones...  that it doesnt take much to get a pretty decent sound.
 
Dial in a decent sound, double track it and pan L/R to taste....and make the drums slam.  The drums bring the energy in this style of music.
 
using a modeler will help rule out of it has something to do with your amp/tone/signal chain or if you are getting good sounds but the mix in general needs some work for them to come through like you want

Just heard your links to your stuff.  my last post(above) was before I got this far in the thread :)
 
this is actually not bad at all, and I wont stand by my original guesstimate that the drums are possibly the culprit.  They are actually nice for this mix and they cut through and drive the song well.  Now that we have something to listen to, I do hear what you're saying.
 
I hear classic V30 in there.  Its not a bad sound at all, but it does have that roundish tone with a mid spike vibe to it for sure.
 
My suggestion..  buy yourself an MXR 10 band EQ and put it in the loop of the amp.  not out front.  in the loop.
 
EQ in the loop is a wonderful thing(being able to shape the sound after the preamp).  Dial the amp however you like to dial it so it responds really well and then shape it with that MXR in the loop.  You'll be able to dial a more crushing tone with relative ease.
 
for this type of tone that you want Id be adding a couple DB between 2 and 4k(bumped most around 3k with a smaller bump up around 2 and 4) and Id be CUTTING from roughly 500-1.2k with the most coming out of 800 ish.
 
I would add a little more gain and presence, and simply double track.  This type of music does tend to need a bit of harshness to the tone(which even if you overdo it...its easy to EQ it out after recording).  But its harder to add the edge if it wasnt there to begin with.
 

straighttothebar

BASSJOKER
What sound you getting now ?  maybe just work on you own unique sound and don't worry about nailing that particular one. 

Well, here's a short example of somtn:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey3Wpn0wBO4&
Made this video earlier to demonstrate a bug I had in Sonar..
 

BASSJOKER
....also maybe a Red Pick will do the trick  ;o)

Do not question the importance of the Black Pick.
Thank you.
 

BASSJOKER
seriously though...i hope ya find that satisfaction ya crave .....I'm working on it too ... in a diff way
;o)

Thanks! Now you made me curious, go on, hit me, what different way? :-)

greg_moreira
this is actually not bad at all, and I wont stand by my original guesstimate that the drums are possibly the culprit. 

 
Thanks. Drums are important indeed, but a good bassguitar sound is at least as important! Again, I didn't change much to the overall sound. Perhaps the cutting around 120hz on the guitar tracks and boosting everything below 100hz just gave more room to the lower frequencies of these instruments.
 

greg_moreira
I hear classic V30 in there.  Its not a bad sound at all, but it does have that roundish tone with a mid spike vibe to it for sure.

 
Gotto dissappoint you on this one, I own both a v30 and a G12t75 cab, and I miked up the G12t75 speaker cab for this one.
 

greg_moreira
My suggestion..  buy yourself an MXR 10 band EQ and put it in the loop of the amp.  not out front.  in the loop.

 
There is actually an MXR 10 band EQ in the loop! However it's not switched on.. I only use it to add a bit of low-end for when people come to visit, it just sounds better in the room. Perhaps I should try your suggestions.
 

greg_moreira
there are so many good amp models out there....even free ones...  that it doesnt take much to get a pretty decent sound.

 
Sorry, I did try most of them, free and not-so-free, and none of them can replicate the "real" thing, IMO. There is this "airy" touch to the sound when using a real amp, plugins tend to sound too "close"..
 
Thanks for the input!

That is a surprise.  Your tone is super close to what I would purposefully dial in for a straight forward rock sound ...and I happen to use A v30 cab in those instances because it gets it so darn easy.  You had mentioned dialing in some extra mids however, so that might be part of that flavor I hear.  You'd also mentioned the cab is an X pattern, so maybe just some of the V30 speaker is bleeding in :)
 
About the amp sim thing.  I agree I prefer to mic also for all the reasons you mention.  The suggestion for amp sim was merely because you can eliminate so many things from the signal chain.  At that point you know its not the mic or the amp/speakers themselves or any other outboard gear you might have in the mix.
 
Check this vid out.  Its long.....but misha and the band periphery are very established in this type of genre of music and you can see the type of guitar tones he is dialing in with the sort of gear practically all of us have in our home studios.  Just a guitar straight into a little 2 channel interface and some amp sims and it crushes.  There are bits and pieces of him playing and recording throughout the video, so you can here the tones he is getting with a very bare bones approach.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er9VhozNHNk
the amp you have(the real amp) is ultimately capable of the tones I think you probably want.  Sims just make it quick and easy to dial in on the fly and then when you know you have nailed it...  you can bring that approach to your real amp.
 
but yeah I would suggest pushing the gain a little, cutting mids a little(and playing with that EQ in the loop a little more) and when you mic....  mic very close to the center.  too much of the outer perimeter of the cone will start to introduce some roundness and classic vibe back into things
 
 
 

greg_moreira
That is a surprise.  Your tone is super close to what I would purposefully dial in for a straight forward rock sound ...and I happen to use A v30 cab in those instances because it gets it so darn easy.  You had mentioned dialing in some extra mids however, so that might be part of that flavor I hear.  You'd also mentioned the cab is an X pattern, so maybe just some of the V30 speaker is bleeding in :)

 
I urgently have to update my first post again, the cab I had at the time was indeed an X pattern, but recently I found out they didn't had the same resistance (8/16ohm), and therefor I swapped them again to their original cabs, so there's definitely no V30 in the neighbourhood! :p
 

greg_moreira
Check this vid out.  Its long.....but misha and the band periphery are very established in this type of genre of music and you can see the type of guitar tones he is dialing in with the sort of gear practically all of us have in our home studios.  Just a guitar straight into a little 2 channel interface and some amp sims and it crushes.  There are bits and pieces of him playing and recording throughout the video, so you can here the tones he is getting with a very bare bones approach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er9VhozNHNk

 
Excellent video right there and great recource, thanks.
 

greg_moreira
but yeah I would suggest pushing the gain a little, cutting mids a little(and playing with that EQ in the loop a little more) and when you mic....  mic very close to the center.  too much of the outer perimeter of the cone will start to introduce some roundness and classic vibe back into things

 
The position I use is cap/edge - on axis. I have been told that it is impossible to get a good sound from the cap only, that's why I didn't went any closer to the center..
Mic positions
 
Cheers

yep very close to center is a relative term.  If your mic is partially overlapping the center cap and speaker cone...  I call that very close to center :)
 
now as far as being impossible to get a good tone from dead center(or any particular mic position), Id take that with a grain of salt.  Granted where you currently placed it typically yields good results...  but I wouldnt assume its impossible to get the right sound over dead center or anywhere else.  Id move it and hear for myself what I like best.
 
im not actually suggesting that dead center can or will be better.  Im merely suggesting it doesnt hurt to try before assigning a 'definite' to it.  The center is obviously going to have the most biting and harsh sound, but its all relative to amp settings.  it may or may not be too biting of a tone depending on how the amp is dialed in
 
here is a good video that shows you what to expect.  as you can see in this particular instance...  dead center position is very useable potentially.  Again though speaker/amp combo and settings have a ton to do with it, so lots of things are going to affect the outcome
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyDnoHSFsnc

another cool video here that I happened across(right in line after the other I linked)
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfEh79A0b0U
 
keep in mind to this isnt an 'every single time' sort of deal.  If you are always using the same gear I suggest maybe taking some of these steps, finding a spot in the room where the amp sounds great and going through as much of this 'process' as you can til you nail it once.
 
then make note of mic placement, amp position, amp settings etc and you can quickly recreate it any time you are ready.
 
my earlier suggestion of the amp sim thing 'sort of' can go hand in hand with this deal.  You are still in discovery mode trying to craft the best recorded tone.  You have a great tone, but clearly you personally want something more from it...  so figuring out what sounds best to you in your mixes is still an ongoing project right.  Amp sims are so flexible and easy to just flip between on the fly you can quickly figure out what you like in a sim...  Just so you have a reference to say "I like this kind of tone and character".  then as you are playing with amp settings and mic positions you have a goal to get to.
 
you are basically looking for the sweet spot in mic placement and eq/drive settings on the amp that returns a general sound that you cheated to quickly find.  Like for example if you really dug that tone misha had in the earlier video...  take a snapshot of that and then get to tweaking on the amp and mic placement til your own tone suddenly starts to have similar character.  Its just a reference is all.
 
fyi reamp box makes this stuff easier, but there is no rule that says you cant just play it live a few times with different mic positions.  Or have a buddy sweep the mic around while you are jamming and you listen through phones.  I did it the old fashioned way myself without any reamping ability and now I generally know which mic's Im going to throw in front of what cab and where to place them.
 
if you arent worried about keeping your cabs pristine you could even mark the grille cloth with a marker or something so you know right away where you like to aim the mic once you find the best spot.
 

Again, great piece of advice! Thx man. Another thing, you mentioned earlier about the tone being more suitable for "rock" instead of metal got me thinking maybe the ENGL Savage just isn't made for this kind of music? Or am I seeying that wrong? Do you have any experience with this amp?

straighttothebar
Again, great piece of advice! Thx man. Another thing, you mentioned earlier about the tone being more suitable for "rock" instead of metal got me thinking maybe the ENGL Savage just isn't made for this kind of music? Or am I seeying that wrong? Do you have any experience with this amp?

I dont have direct experience.   Never owned one but I have heard a few and heard some really convincing metal tones out of them.  If you check youtube you can find a lot of guys rocking the savage with some serious metal tones, so I think it seems more than capable.
 
just a matter of getting all the fine details figured out.

Old thread.  But hey, Black Picks make good firestarters.  Mmmm cellulose.
 
I'm going along with the crowd here and stating a properly adjusted Equalizer is the way you're going to want to go and for the home studio guy a trip to walmart for a batch of big bath towels to get the ambient of your garage or bedroom out.  Nothing lacks balls like a tinny riff track or a Bass without the bass.  At mixing time after recoding it really does do justice to go through and automate a few ProChannel equalizer knobs.  Metal, like any other genre, has its chorus and riff, and power sections.  I call those the pink sections, you know.  Because you can't be a man without the color pink.
 
I say automation by way of explaining when you know a chorus is gonna happen, load that preset.  When you know you're gonna bust out in pink, load that preset.  A few cheap floor switches or a foot array that send events will do.
 
Good luck with the practice and the technique.  My fingers bled and I was a sissy, so I stopped.  Takes more determination than I, and a lot of greasy strings.
 
OH and uh...not too loose.  You'll put your eye out.  The spring-back from a loose string is a killer.
 
I saw the comment about Metal vs. Rock and I had to re-edit to shake my head.
 
Metal, Rock, Rockabilly, Soft Rock, Alternative Rock, Pop Rock, Heavy Metal, and Thrash Metal / "Black Metal" are completely different genres with completely different hardware set ups and techniques.
 
I.e.:  When someone says Metal, I go 80s hair band.  When someone says Alternative Rock, I call them a Millenial.
 
Read from the Blue Moon Boys up in the history of rock and roll.  That will clear that misinterpretation up pretty fast.  Rock and Metal had their seperate ways mid to late 1970s.  It all boils right down to a dude in his garage messing with the guts of an amp and some springs and do-dads until he got a different sound he liked better than what was out.
 
I almost said "do-waps".
Shoot me in the face, please.