• Hardware
  • Sound Blaster with Cakewalk? (p.2)
2016/10/24 14:05:08
bitflipper
In your situation, where you just want to hear your notated compositions, you're not recording an orchestra and you're not preparing a commercial release, your internal audio interface is probably all you need.
 
There's a tendency among those of us who are pretty serious about this stuff to assume the only path is to buy the most expensive gear we can afford. Expensive interfaces, microphones, speakers. Most of us, if we suddenly came into a lot of money, would have no problem quickly blowing $100K just on stuff we've been dreaming about but arguably don't actually need.
 
I know this may sound like heresy. And more than a little hypocritical. But let's take an objective look at what a more sophisticated interface gets you and see how many bullet points apply to the OP...
 
1. Low noise, low distortion, and minimal crosstalk. These are not necessarily prerequisites for everyone, certainly not for somebody who just wants to make a composition audible. Even the noisiest, nastiest interface will not prevent you from exporting a pristine digital mix for distribution.
 
2. Multiple inputs and outputs. Not everybody needs them. Especially if you have no need for inputs of any kind, such as is the case for 100% ITB composers, and your only output requirement is to hook up speakers.
 
3. Digital inputs and outputs. Not driving digital speakers, bringing in audio from external synthesizers or digital devices? You don't need ADAT, S/PDIF or TOSLink.
 
4. A dedicated MIDI port. Yes, MIDI over classic 5-pin DIN allows for more versatile connections and in some cases less-problematic connections. But in the OP's case, all the MIDI is internal to the computer.
 
5. Bespoke drivers. Using a built-in interface might necessitate using generic high-latency drivers, whereas a well-supported pro or prosumer interface will support all the driver models. Companies like RME write their own drivers and are always working on improving them. Our OP doesn't care, and needn't care, about latency - only reliability and simplicity of use, which MME excels at. And it will always work with every Windows version.
 
6. Metering. Irrelevant to the OP, who only needs to make sure his output stays out of the red.
 
7. Better headphone amplification. Here's a potential plus the OP might care about, having enough oomph to push some headphones properly. But headphone amplifiers can be bought separately, and if the headphones are efficient enough, or aren't used at all, may not be necessary anyway.
 
8. External effects. Great if you're recording vocals so you can give the vocalist reverb in his cans, but useless to the OP. 
 
9. Mixing and routing options. Many interfaces are full-featured mixers. Mine is as capable as most mixers I've ever used, but how many of us ever change their interface routing? Muting channels is about all I do.
 
10. High sample rates. Some integrated audio interfaces are limited to 48 KHz. Although sample rate often triggers debate, we can all agree that if you are playing back only sampled instruments, there is zero benefit to upsampling them from their original sample rate. 
 
11. Miscellaneous features. Phantom power. Balanced I/O. External controls. Rack-mountable for tidiness. XLR/TRS Neutrik connectors. Not applicable to the OP.
 
These are just off the top of my head. I'm sure others can think of additional benefits of a high-end interface, but they're likely equally irrelevant to the OP.
2016/10/24 15:30:16
Steve_Karl
I disagree with any recommendation for USB.
Pickup a used M-Audio PCI 2496 and learn to deal with the RCA outs.
It's the most solid on the cheap card you'll ever find.
 
2 right now on eBay for $30.00 or less and free shipping:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i...udio+2496&_sacat=0
 
 
2016/10/24 17:55:20
tlw
A 2496 might be OK if (1) the PC has any PCI slots, and if so they are not shared, and (2) the operating system is no more recent than Windows 7.

My old Delta44 would playback in Win7 but not record, and wouldn't even do that in Win8.

In any case, if all that's required is playback not recording, relying on low-latency software synth use or routing monitor mixes the built-in sound might well be more than adequate. Lot's of people work entirely in a Windows or Mac laptops and even tablets using just the internal sound chip because they don't need audio inputs that are any better than the built-in microphone pre. If they need audio input at all.

It strikes me that the first question that needs addressing is why sonar isn't seeing a built-in chip the rest of the system can see and access.
2016/10/24 19:10:44
Cactus Music
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UCA222?adpos=1o2&creative=97569006481&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&product_id=UCA222&gclid=CJnCucvG9M8CFRSIfgodoJAGVA
 
It doesn't get any cheaper than this. I own the old model UCA 200 and have used it for music playback for years now. It came free with a little Behringer mixer ( that broke).
It uses a plug and Play USB Codex and it's dead simple. always works the second I plug it in.  Notice it has both RCA and a 1/8" jack.
 
PCI sound card were common 1o years ago but now on board audio is on par with anything any sound card offers. Creative Labs is overpriced OMHO.
But seriously myself I'd spend the $150 and get a Tascam US2x2.  and never look back. You can always use the headphone output and a 1/4" to 1/8" adaptor if you need to.
2016/10/24 20:21:47
abacab
Just for the record, I have been using the on-board Realtek audio chip in my el-cheapo Acer Aspire E-15 laptop, with the freeware ASIO4ALL drivers, and the 1/8" audio output.  This is a year old model with a Core i5 mobile processor (dual core), 4GB RAM, and a slow 5400 RPM HDD, running Windows 10 64-bit.
 
For playback only.  No audio recording.  Just to use a USB MIDI keyboard to control virtual instruments hosted in Sonar synth rack.  Can also play MIDI files mapped to VST instruments ...  the 4GB RAM seems to be the limiting factor as far as the number of VSTi instances that can be run.
 
It actually works very well!!!  No glitching, dropouts, or delays. I even get close to the same latency as my desktop DAW does with a Firewire audio interface.  I only got this laptop for mobile computing, not audio.  I already have a DAW that exceeds my needs, but was pleasantly surprised to discover I could play around with the laptop while traveling.
 
Edit: Also for the record, I tried this on-board Realtek audio configuration with Sonar and the available Windows drivers (MME, WDM, and WASAPI) instead of ASIO4ALL, and could not get usable performance.  It sounded very bad, with long delays and dropouts.  The Windows drivers sound good for me only with web streaming audio and video such as media players, YouTube, Netflix, etc.  That stuff can buffer all it needs to provide smooth playback.  But for real-time audio, no.
 
If I wanted to do more with the laptop, such as mobile recording, I would probably add a $100 USB audio interface with ASIO drivers.  Probably the Focusrite, Tascam, or Steinberg 2x2 type units would suffice for lightweight recording purposes.
2016/10/25 12:10:28
TheMaartian
Realtek updated their drivers for Win10 last year (just found this link yesterday). Tick the box, click on next, and d/l the appropriate drivers.
 
http://www.realtek.com/do...ID=3&GetDown=false
2016/10/27 11:57:36
fortissimo
Thanks everyone for chipping in!  I have been "away" from this thread for a couple days because the USB ports on my my motherboard are going out and I've been distracted researching new motherboards, CPUs and RAM.
 
I guess my priority is not necessarily price but long-term compatibility. Sorry for the misleading "cheapskate" wording I used - I guess there is a small correlation in my mind between cheap sound cards like Sound Blasters and long-term reliability - I've had lots of sound cards die on me, but ironically, only the "pro" sound cards die for the reason of outdated drivers - that doesn't happen to Sound Blasters, and SB's tend to be cheaper.  I have used various pro sound cards in the past, and I just remember feeling so relieved when I started using a Sound Blaster because I felt like it still did everything *I* needed it to do (I definitely will not use about 98% of the options that come with drivers and even the software I use), except I didn't have to rely on obscure drivers from companies that are always making me wonder, "Are they going to release a driver update for the next Windows version?"  I've also been scarred in the past by my luck with computers - even my computer guru software developer friend says I have pretty bad luck with computers.  Even as I try to purchase only those things that are most guaranteed to work well for the longest amount of time (I give a LOT of weight to number and quality of reviews of computer products), weird things still seem to go wrong.
 
Once I get a new MB/CPU/RAM and get my system up and running again, I'll give the on-board sound card thing another go since people above point out that it really should work.  Maybe I won't even have to buy a dedicated sound card.
 
For now, I just tried to see if I could get things to work... to no avail.
 
Options --> Instruments (assign instruments)
The "Output/Channel" panel has nothing available.  The "Uses instrument" panel has the following options:
<default>
General MIDI
General MIDI Drums
Generic (Patches 0..127)
Generic (Patches 1..128)
Roland GS
Roland GS Drumsets
SoundFont Device
Yamaha XG
Yamaha XG Drum Kits

Options --> Audio --> General, "Playback Timing Master" only gives me two options: None, or 1: Realtek HDA SPDIF Out [WaveRT]
(1: Realtek is currently selected, obviously)
 
Options --> Audio --> Advanced --> Driver Mode:  this is the only place I've been able to find anything even remotely mentioning ASIO.  When I change this from WDM/KS to ASIO and save, then go back into Audio --> General, "Playback Timing Master" gives me no options whatsoever.
 
Options --> Audio --> Drivers:  I am told to check/uncheck drivers.  The following output drivers are listed:
Realtek HD Audio output [WaveRT] 1/2
Realtek HD Audio output [WaveRT] 3/4
Realtek HD Audio output [WaveRT] 5/6
Realtek HD Audio output [WaveRT] 7/8
Realtek HDA SPDIF Out [WaveRT]
 
By default, only the last one was enabled.  I tried enabling the 1/2, 3/4, etc. and saving the options.  After going back into the audio options, nothing new appeared as far as playback or instruments are concerned.
2016/10/27 12:00:29
fortissimo
TheMaartian:  Every time I've ever updated Realtek drivers through Windows updates, it has screwed up my entire system and I've had to revert back (I've tried probably 3 times over the past several years).  I know getting third party drivers through Windows is generally a bad idea, but are you 100% sure these drivers will not screw things up?  :)
 
2016/10/27 12:54:20
TheMaartian
fortissimo
TheMaartian:  Every time I've ever updated Realtek drivers through Windows updates, it has screwed up my entire system and I've had to revert back (I've tried probably 3 times over the past several years).  I know getting third party drivers through Windows is generally a bad idea, but are you 100% sure these drivers will not screw things up?  :)

I downloaded them directly from Realtek. I did not use Windows update. I also did not use DriverScanner, a utility I own. I've had problems with both in the past.
 
But so far, I haven't experienced any trouble with the newest drivers. The biggest issue for me was remembering that I had disabled the motherboard audio via the BIOS. Doh! But 100%? I'd never promise you that.
 
On another issue you mention...your bad luck with computers.
 
I would DEFINITELY look at the quality of your A/C power. Put an oscilloscope or analyzer on it. You may find that a power conditioner works wonders. If you're plugged into a cheap UPS, that could be your problem. Something like this sure makes me look at the power source.
2016/10/27 16:39:57
azslow3
fortissimo
Options --> Instruments (assign instruments)
The "Output/Channel" panel has nothing available.  The "Uses instrument" panel has the following options:
<default>
General MIDI
General MIDI Drums
Generic (Patches 0..127)
Generic (Patches 1..128)
Roland GS
Roland GS Drumsets
SoundFont Device
Yamaha XG
Yamaha XG Drum Kits

Options --> Audio --> General, "Playback Timing Master" only gives me two options: None, or 1: Realtek HDA SPDIF Out [WaveRT]
(1: Realtek is currently selected, obviously)
 
Options --> Audio --> Advanced --> Driver Mode:  this is the only place I've been able to find anything even remotely mentioning ASIO.  When I change this from WDM/KS to ASIO and save, then go back into Audio --> General, "Playback Timing Master" gives me no options whatsoever.
 
Options --> Audio --> Drivers:  I am told to check/uncheck drivers.  The following output drivers are listed:
Realtek HD Audio output [WaveRT] 1/2
Realtek HD Audio output [WaveRT] 3/4
Realtek HD Audio output [WaveRT] 5/6
Realtek HD Audio output [WaveRT] 7/8
Realtek HDA SPDIF Out [WaveRT]
 
By default, only the last one was enabled.  I tried enabling the 1/2, 3/4, etc. and saving the options.  After going back into the audio options, nothing new appeared as far as playback or instruments are concerned.

1. Preferences, set "Advanced" mode (and keep it so).
1. Audio->Playback and Recording->DriverMode : WDM/KS (you have it, but check that you have not switched it). If you have just selected it, press "Apply" before next steps.
2. Audio->Devices:
   * in Output : UNCHECK everything including SPDIF(!), check "Realtek.... 1/2"
   * in Input: check "Realtek... 1/2" or whatever you see these, EXCEPT SPDIF.
3. MIDI->Devices: UNCHECK everything
4. "Apply", "Ok", exit and start again.
Create NEW empty project.
Load some audio data / go into browser , find some loop and put it on Audio track (or in the empty space of track view, the track will be audo-created).
Press "Play". Do you get any sound? If yes, everything is ok.
 
If no, let us know either you could follow that instructions. There are other options to check/try, including ASIO. If you are patient, we can make it running.
 
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account