2016/11/23 09:48:38
gswitz
fwiw, I rarely use XY or ORTF when mic'ing drumz. I almost always space them out, and yes there can be phase issues related to spacing them out. But, I mic each drum in the kit closely and then use MAutoAlign to handle phase problems for the drumz. Spacing them out is a big help for me. It makes it easier for me to play with the stereo spread later. I see it as near mic'ing a set of cymbals... sure they get all the drumz too but overheads get so much sizzle ... also, I close mic every drum, so I have a lot of control there.
 
I think if you aren't close mic'ing any of the drumz, lowering the mics so that they are kinda equi-distant from the drumz and the cymbals might help get a fuller drum sound.
 
If you can at least mic the snare, that will help, but the idea put out by Rob is really a great one. You've got a mic on the snare... not a low mic coming in from the side will really help you capture the toms!
2016/11/23 13:12:26
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
patm300e
http://recordinghacks.com/2010/04/03/drum-overhead-microphone-technique-comparison/


this makes excellent reading.and if you never mic'ed a drum kit, you should take the time to do this exercise by yourself well ahead of the actual recording session so that you can walk away and listen back with a fresh mind. your drummer will love this, he gets to hear his kit in many different ways and you can get a feeling for what sound he likes and what blends best with the backing tracks. it is super helpful to have a sound concept in mind when tracking as opposed to relying on the mix to fix it.
 
 
2016/11/23 13:41:09
Voda La Void
patm300e
If you have time (and patience!) try each method here in your space.
http://recordinghacks.com/2010/04/03/drum-overhead-microphone-technique-comparison/
 
Then pick the one that sounds the best to you!
Bottom line is there is no one correct way to record drums.  Success has been found with and without "Room" mikes that set back from the drums.


Interesting reading.  I use the spaced pair method.  One should also notice that the closer the mics are to the toms, the more tone you seem to get out of them, and less box.  At least that's what my ear is telling me.  The clip for "recorderman" gives this away.  That technique puts the mics closer to the kit.   Listen to any of the other clips, and compare it to that one and those toms sound punchier and a bit deeper.  It's subtle, really, but still fairly clear to me.  

The other thing to take away from this...in my very humbled opinion, is that if all you have are overheads to mic a drum kit, then why bother?  It sounds like crap.  Boxes and trash can lids far, far away...  Close mic'ing is imperative to good drum sound.  You have to get close to those shell heads unless you have a perfectly dead room.

I'd love to be wrong about that, but I can't imagine any amount of EQ'ing that's going to fix those clips and magically transform them into a good drum sound.  
2016/11/23 14:29:34
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
Voda La Void
The other thing to take away from this...in my very humbled opinion, is that if all you have are overheads to mic a drum kit, then why bother?  It sounds like crap.  Boxes and trash can lids far, far away...  Close mic'ing is imperative to good drum sound.  You have to get close to those shell heads unless you have a perfectly dead room.




don't quite agree as it all depends ...
first of all on the style of music it needs to blend with. for aggreessive metal you are probably better off closing mic'ing and layering the hell out of it, BUT for other genres 4 properly placed mics can be all you need for perfect blend AND good sound - given you got a good sounding kits, good pair of OH mics and a good room. for the most recent project we had several pre-tracking sessions just for the drum sound. we ended up cutting 14 mics (8 close, 6 OH/room) but the actual kit sound for a song comes out of 4-5 mics (quite similar to what Glyn Johns did ages ago), the other mics we use to shape the kit ...
 
BTW, the room is reasonably dry, but not dead (RT60 ~ 300 - 500 ms) ... don't think I could have done it in the churches we have round here (massive ambience in those old halls), so I'm curious what Beagle will share later on
 
Voda La Void
I'd love to be wrong about that, but I can't imagine any amount of EQ'ing that's going to fix those clips and magically transform them into a good drum sound.  

 
IMHO, EQ can never fix it, EQ can only take away if there is too much of it.
2016/11/23 16:18:42
Unknowen
I remember watching an recording session with the rolling stones at I think at Columbia. ??? but I cound be way off on that.
Anyway they had a wood board cover over the top of the kit. drum kit.
and if you have seen any early Hen house videos they had moving blankets in closing the kit.
That sad I No this... you don't want to pick up the room (Church space) there are too many things tat can go wrong. You need some try of barrier around the drums. list your mics and I or others as well can create a setup template.
 
Next they may have those portable  coat racks on wheel... I would use them filled with coats or hang blankets on them. The main Idea is not to keep the drums in , its to keep the reflections getting to the mics. First behind the drums to start. Then the sides.
You know that in the mix if the delay is bad you wont be able to mix the drums into the mix.
if you have some gobos... I bet
if you want more ideas or help.
Maybe this will be of help to you and its just my two cents... sounds like fun! Good luck!
2016/11/23 17:28:33
Jeff Evans
Oheads alone can and do work very well. It does depend on the genre of music a bit though. Say for Jazz a well setup Ohead sound is hard to beat. The only thing is the kick is pointing out the front and not up like all the other drums are so a pair of Oheads and a kick mic can actually do the job. (3 tracks folks)
 
It does depend on a few factors though. One is the quality of the drums. I have a Sonor kit and really they are up there as one of the best sounding drum kits period. Once tuned real nice a pair of OHeads can sound stellar. The room needs to sound pretty sweet too.
 
Also depends on the player too with Oheads. A real nice sensitive drummer who not only does not play loud but really knows how hard to hit everything in the kit, cymbals included for a perfectly balanced sound.  Someone like Steve Gadd can do that. And me of course!
 
I also like the close miced sound too. With care you can do both and get an excellent blend.
2016/11/24 20:29:20
mixmkr
If you've got a great drummer and a great kit... a snare, kick and 2 OH mics should cut it...carefully placing the OH so the cymbals don't dominate.  Grab a stereo pair of room mics too.  Don't worry about mic brands or types.  Look for your performance and the sound of the drums initially.  Let the drummer get your "mix"
 
If they're so-so drummers... mic as much as you can.
2016/11/25 22:38:34
MBGantt
I will start by saying that I haven't done a lot of drum recording but the best work I have ever done is with a couple of condensers backed away from the drums. If you have a good room (and a church can be just that) then that is where a lot of the sound is going to come from. I usually do one off to the right and one off to the left for each stereo channel. Experiment a bit with distance and add a kick or snare mic (panned dead center) if you need more of those and keep it simple. I find I screw it up any other way!
2016/11/26 10:24:14
michaelhanson
The genre that Reece is trying to record drums for is our band Scandalous Grace.  Sean has a Pro Engineer friend out in CA that said our songs were really good, but suggested that we track with a real drummer, instead of using midi drums.  
 
If you want to hear the style, we have 2 songs up on the songs forum.  
2016/11/26 11:13:52
ChuckC
With What you have Beagle, try the kick mic, 1 pencil on the snare (facing away from the hats!) 2 large diaphragms as OH in a spaced pair about a foot above the cymbals, maybe to the inside to get the toms too.  Phase relation to the snare is important.   The other LD as a mono center room mic.   Listen and then augment if needed with the other pencil.  You may need to mic the ride or floor tom with the other pencil  You may not.
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