2018/07/19 17:59:33
Voda La Void
Always loved playing this tune.  Now that I'm trying to grasp theory a little bit, I'm actually confused on how this one works.  I think the original was in C#, but like everybody else, I play it in C.  
 
The main verse progression is simply C major, A minor, F minor to G major.  (During the super high slidey intro phrase it actually goes to F major, and that would seem to be all in the key of C.  But that's not the part that's confusing.) 
 
What key or keys are we going to when it goes to F minor to G major?  At that point in the melody, it's playing two finger chords that include F-G-G#...that G# is screwing up my day.  It's beautiful, but it's turning my brain a little. 
 
I would have guessed maybe the key is actually G#, which would make F minor aolean natural, but then you wouldn't have a G major chord, you should have a G diminished, right?  How does that G# melody work over the second part of this progression?
 
 
 
 
 
 
2018/07/19 18:22:52
bitflipper
I recorded a cover of this song a couple years ago. I just think of it as being in the key of C with some weird/stretched chords thrown in, like Fresh Garbage by Spirit. Such liberties just fit the pedal steel's inherent pitch fluidity. I guess you could make a case that it's actually in Eb.
2018/07/20 22:37:06
TheMaartian
bitflipper
I recorded a cover of this song a couple years ago. I just think of it as being in the key of C with some weird/stretched chords thrown in, like Fresh Garbage by Spirit. Such liberties just fit the pedal steel's inherent pitch fluidity. I guess you could make a case that it's actually in Eb.

Nice cover, Dave!
2018/07/22 18:25:12
bitflipper
Thanks, John. I'd love to revisit that tune someday. Sadly, it's one of the many projects that disappeared with my computer.
2018/07/22 20:23:31
joakes
Jeff Beck also covered this tune (in C)

https://youtu.be/5vyu7jAnwZs

Cheers,
Jerry
2018/07/23 21:14:37
markno999
Voda,
 
It's all C.  I think they played the original in C# due to steel guitar tuning.
 
If we are thinking about the same part, the melody is a result of a tritone substitution, or, as an altered G7..   When the chord progression goes to Fm with F in the melody, to G in the melody to G#, you can play a Db9 under the G# melody.   You could play C, Am, Fm, Db9.  Db9 is the tritone sub for G7.  Alternative, you could also think of the G# as the b9 of G7 and play a G7b9, if you are sticking to the C, Am, Fm, G progression.  A diminished scale works there for sure if soloing or looking for some fills.
 
Regards
2018/07/24 13:04:22
Voda La Void
Ugh...just when a fella gets comfortable with the rules...
 
I thought a G7 would simply be adding the 7th scale degree from G, whatever key you're in.  So, for G, I would have thought a G7 would have a f#, which is a beautiful sound I've used in a few places over the years.  But, now I'm reading that a G7 contains an F, is in the key of C (or Am), and that you wouldn't actually have a G7 in the key of G.  Weird.  Totally weird.  
 
So then what is the chord when I play a G7 except fretting the F#? 
 
I thought these chords were simpler than that, and you could just count the scale positions to determine the number, based on the key of the scale.  Now it looks like I need to understand dominants and all that...pita.
 
Now the confusion of the G# note playing over the G chord of this song doesn't seem that bad after all...
 
 
 
2018/07/24 16:38:15
markno999
Voda,
 
The G chord with F# in the would be a Gmaj7,  a G dominant 7th has F instead.   The dominant 7th is generally a leading chord as the sound is pushing to resolution.     In Sleepwalk, the G7 is leading to the C.   Maj7 chords have a different function, usually.    
 
You can absolutely play a G7 in the key of G.   In that case the G7 is generally going to be pushing to the 4 chord, or C.
 
Once you get these sounds in your head it will make a lot more sense, theory alone can be confusing.
 
Regards
2018/07/24 23:53:04
Voda La Void
markno999
Voda,
 
The G chord with F# in the would be a Gmaj7,  a G dominant 7th has F instead.   The dominant 7th is generally a leading chord as the sound is pushing to resolution.     In Sleepwalk, the G7 is leading to the C.   Maj7 chords have a different function, usually.    
 
You can absolutely play a G7 in the key of G.   In that case the G7 is generally going to be pushing to the 4 chord, or C.
 
Once you get these sounds in your head it will make a lot more sense, theory alone can be confusing.
 
Regards


Yeah it's definitely confusing, but at least now I have a better understanding of the dominant 7th chord and why it's called a major-minor and how that relates to the major 7th chord and the minor 7th.

Db9 substitution...that's tomorrow's assignment!
2018/07/24 23:53:54
Jesse Screed
Hey V L V, I think it is very cool that you are stretching out with your playing.  It has been very informative reading all the posts about modes and chords and theory.  I can't wait to hear your next song on the forum.  I hope you use some of what you have learned.
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