• Software
  • Supreme Court ruling on taxes (p.4)
2018/06/25 08:49:37
marled
Cactus Music
It's always been kinda weird for me here sitting 1 mile from the US border. 
If I order something from a US company like Sweetwater  and they ship it to my home address in BC I pay $36-$360  shipping. 
If I have it sent to 1 mile away in Danville Washington I get free shipping.

 
Well, that is a little bit Europe in North America! We have exactly the same things happening with shipping (rarely free in the origin country), except that our countries are much smaller and borders are everywhere! Also many shops have even 2 different shipping fees for the other EU contries and sometimes they even do not send items to Sweden (that's EU)!
 
When I order something from Germany I pay a lot for shipping, but if I send it back I pay about 150% for the same thing with the same carrier, strange! (I am talking about orders from private persons or small shops that do not subsidize shipping).
 
Marc
2018/06/25 14:39:42
JohanSebatianGremlin
dmbaer
 
But there is a positive aspect to this - and forget music software for a moment and just consider purchase of general goods.  The tax-free days of internet commerce was really bad for local business, the so-called brick-and-mortar sector.  Having everything taxed the same levels the playing a field at least a bit. 
 
I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that I rather miss local book stores - they were such a pleasant and peaceful place to hang out.  Tax-free online sales has been one aspect of what has all but killed them.  That's not to say, of course, that I like the idea of paying more taxes - my local sales tax is close to 9% last time I checked.

Seems like everyone has that one friend or relative who will drive across town to buy gas from the station that sells it for $0.002 less per gallon. They'll even do the math in their head and proudly tell you how they end up saving almost $16 a year doing it this way. But most of us don't do that. Most of us buy gas when and where we need it because its convenient. Likewise convenience is far and away the number one reason online sales hold the market share that they do. So saying the tax thing will level the playing field is a tad optimistic IMO. This is not going to bring back any brick and mortar stores nor will it do much to save any that are currently dying due to online competition. All this is going to do is give the states more tax revenue.
 
Now the optimist could argue that the states will do good things for the public with that additional revenue instead of funneling it into useless programs that only make wealthy well-connected friends of politicians even wealthier, but I'm not much of an optimist.
2018/06/25 15:07:26
tlw
marled
It was not my attempt to say that the status before the EU was better (at least concerning trade). I just like to compare it to the U.S. and there it is really inferior for customers and small business, too many rules and taxes! The main advantage of the EU is for big business, just see shipping prices as example. There is not many folks in the EU buying things in other countries and this proves its benefit for simple people.


Shipping costs are largely related to the volume of business - economy of scale.

I guess you’re Swedish? If so you might be unaware of the UK’s network of small engineering businesses that supply parts and machinery and carry out sub-contract work for large companies across much of the EU, especially in the motor and aerospace industry. To give one of many examples.

And lots of individuals buy things from companies based in other EU member states or that are shipped from another member state. Much of what Amazon sells is now stored in warehouses across Europe, and can usually be delivered from e.g. Germany into e.g. the UK in 24-48 hours. Not without the customs union and single market they couldn’t.

That’s a large business, but I know quite a few musicians, artists, artisans and others who pretty much self-promote and sell their stuff across the EU.
2018/06/25 19:33:51
abacab
This is a very interesting perspective on the ruling, written by a small business owner who may be adversely impacted...
 
Did The Supreme Court Potentially Bankrupt Tens Of Thousands Of Small Online Businesses?
https://seekingalpha.com/...mall-online-businesses
2018/06/25 23:42:04
dmbaer
JohanSebatianGremlin
Likewise convenience is far and away the number one reason online sales hold the market share that they do. So saying the tax thing will level the playing field is a tad optimistic IMO. This is not going to bring back any brick and mortar stores nor will it do much to save any that are currently dying due to online competition. All this is going to do is give the states more tax revenue.



I never said it would bring back brick and mortar commerce, just that it would level the playing field a bit.  When you purchase a $200 item and you realize you'll pay 18 bucks more if you buy it at a local store courtesy of sales taxes, plus you may well have to pay additional shipping costs, then it makes the online purchase more attractive.  But I am not suggesting this will change the inevitable.
 
By the way, it's not so much state tax revenue, at least here in CA.  A great deal of sales tax results in local revenue that funds things like fire departments and city road maintenance.  I'm not adverse to paying my fair share when it comes to things like that.  But I do want it to be a fair share, and imposing sales taxes for on-line goods is one way to make things equitable across the board, IMO.  Still, I'll probably prefer to buy the online goods as long as the no-tax incentive remains in place.
2018/06/25 23:57:29
abacab
Another question I have, is will this have less of an impact on companies operating outside of the USA?
 
For example, say I'm in the USA and make a purchase from a company in the EU.  What legal recourse will my state have over a company in Germany that sells me something online?
2018/06/26 00:36:22
BobF
abacab
Another question I have, is will this have less of an impact on companies operating outside of the USA?
 
For example, say I'm in the USA and make a purchase from a company in the EU.  What legal recourse will my state have over a company in Germany that sells me something online?




Great question!
 
Opportunity for off-shore resellers for sure
2018/06/26 03:40:43
Jesse G
Geeeeeezz, I don't want to shop on the Internet any more.
2018/06/26 07:16:57
azslow3
Two comments:
* many US software re-sellers simply ignore international rules, f.e. they sell without VAT to EU. I mean existing rules do not mean everyone use them.
* Internet is funny in that respect. At the moment I am sitting at place where WLAN you select influence "where you are": with one WLAN I am in "EU" (France), with another I am in Switzerland (not EU). So most on-line shops are "sensitive"   to my WLAN. Add to that VPN into Germany I periodically switch on
2018/06/26 19:03:20
JohanSebatianGremlin
abacab
Another question I have, is will this have less of an impact on companies operating outside of the USA?
 
For example, say I'm in the USA and make a purchase from a company in the EU.  What legal recourse will my state have over a company in Germany that sells me something online?


Well everything coming in has to clear customs and I believe the shipper has to declare the value of the item in the shipping documents. Customs already holds items in cases where tariffs need to be collected or sometimes they release the item to the post office who collects the tariff before handing the package over. I see no reason why the same couldn't be done for state sales tax. Especially if customs and/or the post office was allowed to tack a processing fee on top for themselves.
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