2016/04/08 03:34:21
tenfoot
RehabRob
 
We use the playlist and control the entire live show (including backing tracks, video cues, live cams, ...) with it in what I consider a flexible and easily maintainable manner. Of course, it took us a while to figure out the best setup as Sonar needs to interact with other software on other PCs but really the current playlist is at the heart of the system - and it works fine and has not let us down in more than 2 years of increasingly more complex live setup.
 

You may have seen this handy little beast already Rob, but if not check it out. I run it on the same laptop as Sonar,  Ableton live and Traktor DJ, though as a standalone linked via loopbe30 midi rather than as a vst insert so that it can be triggered by all 3 programs at different times during the show. I believe there is now a version that has two dmx universes. 
 
http://www.enttec.com/ind...=Products&pn=70570
2016/04/08 08:50:01
Sir William
tenfoot
RehabRob
 
We use the playlist and control the entire live show (including backing tracks, video cues, live cams, ...) with it in what I consider a flexible and easily maintainable manner. Of course, it took us a while to figure out the best setup as Sonar needs to interact with other software on other PCs but really the current playlist is at the heart of the system - and it works fine and has not let us down in more than 2 years of increasingly more complex live setup.
 

You may have seen this handy little beast already Rob, but if not check it out. I run it on the same laptop as Sonar,  Ableton live and Traktor DJ, though as a standalone linked via loopbe30 midi rather than as a vst insert so that it can be triggered by all 3 programs at different times during the show. I believe there is now a version that has two dmx universes. 
 
http://www.enttec.com/ind...=Products&pn=70570




I currently use ShowBuddy and the DMXIS software/hardware, but as I use SPlat to produce my tracks, I would love to go the whole Sonar way and use playlists instead. Plus, I have found that ShowBuddy recently keeps 'hiccuping' during playback - the same tracks don't hiccup with WinAmp. 
 
I am interested tenfoot in whether you use the keypress in Sonar to play the next track, or the footswitch in DMXIS?
2016/04/08 11:15:28
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
tenfoot
RehabRob
 
We use the playlist and control the entire live show (including backing tracks, video cues, live cams, ...) with it in what I consider a flexible and easily maintainable manner. Of course, it took us a while to figure out the best setup as Sonar needs to interact with other software on other PCs but really the current playlist is at the heart of the system - and it works fine and has not let us down in more than 2 years of increasingly more complex live setup.
 

You may have seen this handy little beast already Rob, but if not check it out. I run it on the same laptop as Sonar,  Ableton live and Traktor DJ, though as a standalone linked via loopbe30 midi rather than as a vst insert so that it can be triggered by all 3 programs at different times during the show. I believe there is now a version that has two dmx universes. 
 
http://www.enttec.com/ind...=Products&pn=70570


 
Hey Bruce, are  you reading my mind or my cookies??? ;-)
 
I was researching this thing not too long ago wondering if it would be save to run it off the Sonar PC or MIDI controlled from the video PC. Your info helps a lot as light, fog & fireworks (or maybe just light) is to be integrated next ...
 
Are you using predefined light scenes that you trigger via MIDI or do you use MIDI CC from Sonar tracks to adjust DMX parameters continuously along the playback???
 
BTW, here's a tip for you: I use BOME MIDI translator PRO to manipulate MIDI signals into all sort of other commands (e.g. batch files which exchange config files for video show setup dynamically, or control a home-made teleprompter)
 
Rob
 
 
 
2016/04/08 20:40:13
tenfoot
RehabRob
tenfoot
RehabRob
 
We use the playlist and control the entire live show (including backing tracks, video cues, live cams, ...) with it in what I consider a flexible and easily maintainable manner. Of course, it took us a while to figure out the best setup as Sonar needs to interact with other software on other PCs but really the current playlist is at the heart of the system - and it works fine and has not let us down in more than 2 years of increasingly more complex live setup.
 

You may have seen this handy little beast already Rob, but if not check it out. I run it on the same laptop as Sonar,  Ableton live and Traktor DJ, though as a standalone linked via loopbe30 midi rather than as a vst insert so that it can be triggered by all 3 programs at different times during the show. I believe there is now a version that has two dmx universes. 
 
http://www.enttec.com/ind...=Products&pn=70570


 
Hey Bruce, are  you reading my mind or my cookies??? ;-)
 
I was researching this thing not too long ago wondering if it would be save to run it off the Sonar PC or MIDI controlled from the video PC. Your info helps a lot as light, fog & fireworks (or maybe just light) is to be integrated next ...
 
Are you using predefined light scenes that you trigger via MIDI or do you use MIDI CC from Sonar tracks to adjust DMX parameters continuously along the playback???
 
BTW, here's a tip for you: I use BOME MIDI translator PRO to manipulate MIDI signals into all sort of other commands (e.g. batch files which exchange config files for video show setup dynamically, or control a home-made teleprompter)
 
Rob
 
 
 


 
Hey Rob.

Haha - great minds and all that:) With DMXIS I trigger scenes using midi notes. I previously used a dmx dimmer thast utilised aftertouch messages, but there there is no need to use continuous controller's as the dmxis  software can do anything a dmx desk can, including channel masking and scene layering. For example, for continuous fades I send a single note that sets only the speed of the transition, and then a second note the triggers the scene I wish to fade to. For each chase I create a scene for each step, then trigger each step with a midi note. I have a project in Sonar with all of the scenes, chases and controls (smoke etc) saved as individually named clips. I have a track tremplate that loads 6 midi tracks (2 for bank changes, 4 for scene changes) and I just drag the midi clips across. Because each step of each chase is a midi note they automatically sync with the project tempo they are dragged into. Combined with masking and layering, there isn't much you can't do.
 
The other cool thing is it has batch settings and macros. For example, rather than having to refocus individual scenes in venues, you can set just the pan and tilt for who!e banks of scenes by adjusting one scene, then applying just the pan/tilt to the rest of the bank. 
 
It all takes a bit of thinking through to make it suit your circumstance. Once done though, it is brilliant. It plays vrry well with Sonar and is rock solid. I use loopbe30 as a virtual midi patch bay between Sonar, DMXIS, Ableton live, Trakjtor DJ, and 2 instances of Lemur for  remote control of the daw's.
 
It made much more sense for me to load DMXIS in stand alone mode and trigger the scenes via midi - it loads all scenes on startup and they stay resident, rather than having to load and unload with each song if you use it as a vst insert.
 
Thanks for the tip on Bome Midi translator - it looks great! Just jumping into the manual now.  I am guessing you won't be needing loopbe30 for virtual midi ports:)
 
 
2016/04/08 21:33:50
tenfoot
Sir William
tenfoot
RehabRob
 
We use the playlist and control the entire live show (including backing tracks, video cues, live cams, ...) with it in what I consider a flexible and easily maintainable manner. Of course, it took us a while to figure out the best setup as Sonar needs to interact with other software on other PCs but really the current playlist is at the heart of the system - and it works fine and has not let us down in more than 2 years of increasingly more complex live setup.
 

You may have seen this handy little beast already Rob, but if not check it out. I run it on the same laptop as Sonar,  Ableton live and Traktor DJ, though as a standalone linked via loopbe30 midi rather than as a vst insert so that it can be triggered by all 3 programs at different times during the show. I believe there is now a version that has two dmx universes. 
 
http://www.enttec.com/ind...=Products&pn=70570




I currently use ShowBuddy and the DMXIS software/hardware, but as I use SPlat to produce my tracks, I would love to go the whole Sonar way and use playlists instead. Plus, I have found that ShowBuddy recently keeps 'hiccuping' during playback - the same tracks don't hiccup with WinAmp. 
 
I am interested tenfoot in whether you use the keypress in Sonar to play the next track, or the footswitch in DMXIS?


Hey Sir William.
 
A fellow DMXIS user! I use a program called Lemur to remote control Sonar on either my phone or tablet. I just adapted the template to have only the controls I need for the playlist. Craig Anderton mentioned the X-tempo Pok in another post - I will be grabbing one of these before the next run of shows for sure:
http://www.xtempozone.com/
 
I haven't tried Show Buddy, the main reason being that I run multitrack backing, and they released it long after I had all of my lights programmed.  It is great to be able to stay in one piece of software from recording to performance. I highly recommend you give the playlist a try. I mentioned in the post above how I run DMXIS with Sonar in stand alone mode rather than as a vst.
 
You know I had forgotten all about the footswitch on the DMXIS, tucked away as it is in the back of my rack behind a dmx splitter! Thanks for the reminder. Is Sonar or windows able to see the input of that switch? Armed with Robs suggestion of the Bome Midi translator and yours of the dmxis footswitch, I am off to the studio to see if I can make that work:)
 
Very cool to chat with you guys taking the same approach to live production!
 
 
2016/04/09 07:15:27
Sir William
See, bakers!! A playlist resurgence - give it some love!
2016/04/10 05:35:19
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
tenfoot
 
I have a project in Sonar with all of the scenes, chases and controls (smoke etc) saved as individually named clips. I have a track tremplate that loads 6 midi tracks (2 for bank changes, 4 for scene changes) and I just drag the midi clips across. Because each step of each chase is a midi note they automatically sync with the project tempo they are dragged into. Combined with masking and layering, there isn't much you can't do.
 

 
That's very valuable information to me as I use exactly the same approach to organize and maintain external FX control: templates with MIDI tracks, clips that I just drag and drop ... and I discovered it makes a lot of sense to write a simple instrument definition file so that the entire thing remains readable in the MIDI event list
 
An it's also good to hear that it is rock solid because it saves me time not having to search for alternative devices to test (as I was not sure that this low price tool can actually handle all that in a stable manner)
 
 
tenfoot
 
Thanks for the tip on Bome Midi translator - it looks great! Just jumping into the manual now.  I am guessing you won't be needing loopbe30 for virtual midi ports:)



I still use loopMIDI v1.0.5 (is that the same as "loopbe30" or not? anyway it's a simple virtual MIDI port) because it is so light on the system and together with MIDI translator PRO allowed me to create MIDI port replicas and circumnavigate the problem that some devices (like the X32 digi mixer) expose themselves under some different MIDI port names on different PCs and then screw up the Sonar setup (e.g. when projects are moved to the backup DAW).
 
One final tip, the MIDIMATE (also advertised in one of Craig's eZines) is wired into our racks. That's a really useful and reliable way to get MIDI in and out of PCs ...
 
 
2016/04/10 11:33:47
tenfoot
RehabRob
[
 
I still use loopMIDI v1.0.5 (is that the same as "loopbe30" or not? anyway it's a simple virtual MIDI port) because it is so light on the system and together with MIDI translator PRO allowed me to create MIDI port replicas and circumnavigate the problem that some devices (like the X32 digi mixer) expose themselves under some different MIDI port names on different PCs and then screw up the Sonar setup (e.g. when projects are moved to the backup DAW).
 
One final tip, the MIDIMATE (also advertised in one of Craig's eZines) is wired into our racks. That's a really useful and reliable way to get MIDI in and out of PCs ...
 
 




 
The instrument definition is an excellent idea - thanks for that!
 
I was really surprised at how good DMXIS is for the money. In fact, even after I had programmed all of the lights and had it all running perfectly I purchased a second unit just in case of fgailure. Happy to report it has been a few years now and it is still floating around in the spares bag unused:)
 
Loopmidi is the same program - Ioopmidi30 just has 30 ports. It was called loopbe midi but Tobias changed the name a while back.
 
Haha - I suspect we have encountered many similar problems. I switch between my studio and live systems as well,  and use the X32 ( another piece of kit that has far exceeded my expectations). I have a producer and a rack version, and despite them using the same driver I ran into the port problem switching between the two. How I got around it was to install the X32 drivers and connect X32 producer, then backup the aud.ini and ttisseq files in Sonar. I then removed the X32 drivers, reinstalled them and connected the X32 Rack. Again, I backed up the two files. Now to switch between the two I just paste the appropriate files into their location, and the ports show up where they should. Sure beats reassigning a multitude of outputs!
 
You may already know this, but there are 4 files that contain all of the port location, midi output order etc that gets messed with when changing hardware or computers located @ users/[your username]/AppData/Roaming/Cakewalk/Sonar Platinum. They are AUD.ini, ctrlsurface.dat, INSTRMAP.INI, and TTSEQ.ini. If you open ttseq.ini in a text editor, you can also reorder things that dont have prefence settings like the order your midi inputs show up in your selection menus in Sonar, as well as crucial things like midi port output order. I have backups of these for both X32's and the RME that I use in the studio. It has saved me so much time and makes switching between hardware a breeze.
 
I will certainly check out the midimate - thanks:)
2016/04/10 12:54:35
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
tenfoot
 
The instrument definition is an excellent idea - thanks for that!
 

 
yeah, go for it - it's a bit of a messy subject but you can figure it out in about 2 hours ... it's well worth it as it makes custom MIDI CC readable (e.g. it's much better to read "H9 control bypass" than MIDI CC 74 and then wonder what the heck it meant 6 months ago) ...
 
tenfoot
 
I was really surprised at how good DMXIS is for the money. In fact, even after I had programmed all of the lights and had it all running perfectly I purchased a second unit just in case of fgailure. Happy to report it has been a few years now and it is still floating around in the spares bag unused:)
 

 
same strategy here - have a backup of virtually anything you take on stage. backup DAW, even backup mixer, ... so it's good that this thing is low price :-)
 
tenfoot
Haha - I suspect we have encountered many similar problems. I switch between my studio and live systems as well,  and use the X32 ( another piece of kit that has far exceeded my expectations). I have a producer and a rack version, and despite them using the same driver I ran into the port problem switching between the two. How I got around it was to install the X32 drivers and connect X32 producer, then backup the aud.ini and ttisseq files in Sonar. I then removed the X32 drivers, reinstalled them and connected the X32 Rack. Again, I backed up the two files. Now to switch between the two I just paste the appropriate files into their location, and the ports show up where they should. Sure beats reassigning a multitude of outputs!

 
well, now similarities get worrying. don't post a picture of yourself - it might turn out looking like me ;-)
 
2 X32s working here  as well ... extremely happy with how they work. swapping files is a workable way (though I hadn't that figured out), but with LoopMIDI and MIDI translator I use the first to create a MIDI port of the "missing" X32 and the later just to MIDI pass-through-route from existing port to virtual replica of the missing one ... hence, in this case it's just starting 2 applications more (takes 2 seconds) if I have to go to the backup system ...
 
tenfoot
You may already know this, but there are 4 files that contain all of the port location, midi output order etc that gets messed with when changing hardware or computers located @ users/[your username]/AppData/Roaming/Cakewalk/Sonar Platinum. They are AUD.ini, ctrlsurface.dat, INSTRMAP.INI, and TTSEQ.ini. If you open ttseq.ini in a text editor, you can also reorder things that dont have prefence settings like the order your midi inputs show up in your selection menus in Sonar, as well as crucial things like midi port output order. I have backups of these for both X32's and the RME that I use in the studio. It has saved me so much time and makes switching between hardware a breeze.
 
I will certainly check out the midimate - thanks:)




learned something here again - thanks :-)
2016/04/10 13:07:21
tenfoot
RehabRob
 
2 X32s working here  as well ... extremely happy with how they work. swapping files is a workable way (though I hadn't that figured out), but with LoopMIDI and MIDI translator I use the first to create a MIDI port of the "missing" X32 and the later just to MIDI pass-through-route from existing port to virtual replica of the missing one ... hence, in this case it's just starting 2 applications more (takes 2 seconds) if I have to go to the backup system ...



Ahhh - I like that. Very clever. I take it midi translator is light on resources, plays well with others and is solid then. Will load it up:)
Thanks.
 
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