Thanks, that is way more straight-forward an explanation than the sinister ones I'd entertained. :)
 
I got a free entry-level DAW with my PreSonus interface which prompted me to get the full licenced version two months ago.
 
I also got an entry-level (but still very capable) Sonar version with my Roland/Edirol interfaces back when.
 
Does this strategy work? Is there not some connection with Tascam available to the Bakers to take advantage of?

pwalpwal

John T

irvin
Sonar - to me - is a pretty decent DAW being butchered by some very disturbing trends...

In what ways do you think it has got worse?

for me, it's really got worse with the whole online authentication/ccc... historically, one of sonar's selling points used to be the simple registration/authorisation process, then we got the ilok-requiring softube prochannel bits, now the ccc...

Well, it's Softube that require iLok, not Cakewalk, and the CCC is optional.

pwalpwal
 
for me, it's really got worse with the whole online authentication/ccc... historically, one of sonar's selling points used to be the simple registration/authorisation process, then we got the ilok-requiring softube prochannel bits, now the ccc... smacks of desperation to me - how long have gibson given anderton to "make a go" of this? what KPIs are they looking at? the blustering defensiveness in the forums is a sure sign of such behind the scenes activity..

 
The CCC was brought in concurrently with the monthly updates because they were download-based. Also customers had asked, in this forum, for the ability to pay monthly. That has to be done online as well.
 
iLok is how Softube protected their software. If you have a problem with that, take it up with Softube.
 
As far as Gibson goes, perhaps the reason for what you consider to be "blustering defensiveness" (and I consider "extreme frustration in the face of trying to reason people out of positions they didn't use reason to attain"), one more time:
 
I have been a SONAR user since 2000, when I switched from two other programs. It has continued to fit my needs better than anything else, which is why I keep using it. I also use Ableton Live for live performance and Studio One for album assembly, because my goal is to use the right tool for the right job. DAWs and computer platforms are not a religion to me. They are appliances.
 
Cakewalk is not my job. I was contributing to Cakewalk, on many levels, long before Gibson acquired the company. I work across all of Gibson Brands. I do videos for Neat, Cerwin-Vega, KRK, and TASCAM. I've done circuit design for Gibson USA, write content for Gibson.com, am Editorial Director for Harmony Central, etc. Those are a few examples of my "day job." 
 
The reality is Cakewalk is more like a hobby that I do on evenings and weekends. I use SONAR extensively and products like the Gibson Bass Collection fall out of that - I needed those bass sounds for my own projects. Why not make them available to everyone?
 

regarding the analytics generally, this stuff is usually for a company to work out how to best monetise something (in this case sonar), not necessarily to identify new areas of feature development

 
Cakewalk has spelled out very clearly how they plan to use analytics. We'll see if they stick to their plan, or deviate into what you speculate they will do.
 
You're entitled to judge my responses as defensive. I consider them as disseminating fact-based information. To each his own.

I found a CA-authored Sonar article in an old SOS-Magazine, dated 2005.
That's before Gibson came along.
Before Roland even.

 
 

pwalpwali'd also be interested to know how the steam sales compare to non-steam, as we know artist is the biggest seller version-wise... i'm sure cakewalk can make more money selling to the new-user/one-button crowd, rather than the pros, and i think things like style dials show this effort in action

 
What sells the most units doesn't necessarily contribute the most to the company. Lower-priced products will always sell more than higher-priced versions. Toyota will always sell more Toyota than Lexus. This doesn't mean Toyota will cease to develop the Lexus. Platinum's importance cannot be denied. It is the flagship product and the work on Platinum affects Artist. Also, the more people who buy Artist, the more potential there is for upgrades. People don't necessarily stop at Artist; they start there.
 

'm sure cakewalk can make more money selling to the new-user/one-button crowd, rather than the pros, and i think things like style dials show this effort in action

 
If you wanted to twist it in the other direction, one could just as easily say "I'm sick of SONAR catering just to pros. The new-user/one-button crowd doesn't care about patch points, synth recording, upsampling, synchronizing vocals, ADR and dialog looping, aux tracks, drum replacement, DSD import/export, mix recall, multiple version export, etc. All Cakewalk does is pay lip service to new users with a cheaper version of Platinum, a few Style Dials, and a simpler way to insert tracks. You need to cater to new users instead of those Platinum elitists."
 
 
 
 

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
I didn't mean that "beginner" users were the majority, rather that the majority are users who are producing their own music - i.e singer songwriters, solo artists and bands who like to record and produce their own music. Fewer musicians are going to recording studios these days because of the costs and the fact that its very hard for most to make a profit on sales of CD's. So increasing numbers of people are using digital media and producing the music themselves. These people are hardly beginners - they can be very accomplished musicians and even have a fair amount of DAW experience though they may not have more traditional audio engineering skills. They are a different class of user and all DAW's that want to stay relevant have to cater to this audience. We have several users who fit this category even on our forums. I think the word pro gets associated very narrowly these days with only recording engineers who make a living producing others. Those are the users who are in the minority not the ones who use music software as a tool to produce their own music.
 

Speaking as someone who makes a living producing others, I very much want to see DAWs get easier to use for musicians who self-record.
 
Something that I'm seeing more and more of, is projects that are at least part-recorded by the acts themselves, that come to me to finish off. This will sometimes be just as a mix project, other times more like "we've got half-way and now we need help".
 
Anything that helps those kinds of projects come to me in a better state is most definitely A Good Thing.
 

jpetersen
I found a CA-authored Sonar article in an old SOS-Magazine, dated 2005.
That's before Gibson came along.
Before Roland even.

I started writing the column long before that. I've been a voice in the wilderness for a long time .
 
And as I've said before, whenever Cakewalk used to thank me for my support, they always got the same answer: "Don't kid yourself. If I find something better, I'll switch in a heartbeat...just like I switched to SONAR."

irvin
In any case, a more interesting topic - to me at least - would be Cakewalk's full disclosure of EXACTLY what data is being gathered. Does it go beyond program usage? Does it go beyond Sonar?

From the initial post:

Will Cakewalk Monitor Other Apps?

Absolutely not. We are not interested in other apps you’ve installed. Our analytics apply only to SONAR and how you use our software. We can’t, and will never, monitor your activity outside our app. 

I think there are a lot of misconceptions and assumptions being bandied about with regards to "amateurs versus pros" on this thread and on others in this forum. A lot of the older members like to make references to the "push button crowd" and I think there is this perception of young kids making EDM by dragging a couple of loops around and calling it a day. Really, this could not be further from the truth. There are young bedroom producers out there who would run rings around many of the old timers among us in terms of audio production, sound design, MIDI programming, use of controllers and automation etc. If you actually follow the scene there are some incredibly intricate productions out there which have utilized very advanced techniques and sound absolutely stunning, even if you don't like the genre. It must be hard, if you're a pro who's spent 30 years tuning his ears in the fields of EQ and compression, to hear 20 year old kids come along and create smooth sounding productions with perfect instrument separation after just 2 or 3 years at it. Part of the reason for this is that with the advent of plugins and DAW's, you have kids who have been able to put in 1000's of hours practice in their bedroom with unlimited "gear" at their disposal as opposed to the older engineers who were limited to whatever time they could get in their studio and whatever limited range of gear they could practice on. 
 
Now granted some of these kids are clamoring for production tools which old farts scoff at. But isn't that just how it's always been? New technology, new production techniques, new genres, the older generation making fun of it. These kids are taking on board all of the audio engineering techniques that you've spent 30 years learning, plus innovating some of their own. Believe me, they want the "pro" features just as much as you....but they want new features as well. 

This is awesome! I'm already working on some scripts to do the things I want improved over and over when I'm not working on a project. Turn on analytics and let the data fly!
 
Come on guys, figure out how to use lemons to make lemonade!
 
gabo