As mentioned before though, these forums do not represent the SONAR user base but rather a portion of it.  What if the non-forum regulars aren't looking for the same things as the limited number of posters here?   Analytics will hopefully help to clarify that.   And if they prove that the majority actually are looking for those same things, then I hope the bakers recognize the importance!    It's all speculation until there are some facts to back it up.  
 

Anderton

FanCake
Serious post now. So why is this monitoring a priority, when they must have pretty clear customer feedback here and in support about what to do. When I read the forums it seems pretty clear to me, maybe they should spend more time reading the forums? But I suspect they already do.

 
You raise a valid point, and a serious post deserves a serious answer (although I hope you won't abandon doing the non-serious ones...).
 
First, analytics are not infallible, which your post proves: Akismet again flagged your post as spam, and auto-deleted it (maybe because of your ISP having an entry in a blocklist? I don't know). So again, I had to restore it manually. However, this also shows an advantage of analytics because after I've restored a certain number of posts from the same user that have been auto-deleted, Akismet figures it's legit and leaves you alone - while still deleting the "Babaji Magic Woman Attraction Potion" spam posts.
 
Now, to your point. Noel can correct me if I'm wrong, but if you look at the feature requests, it is an overwhelming amount with varying degrees of importance and feasibility (although some are clear favorites, and hopefully CW is working on those), from a small minority of the user base (i.e., those who frequent the forums). Add that to the multiple random posts in the forum making suggestions, which someone from Cakewalk may or may not see, and you end up with an uncurated mess. Although I don't know what shape the "feedback portal" will take, I assume it's intended to work in conjunction with the analytics to provide the kind of info that analytics can't.
 
I think the main problem for Cakewalk isn't gathering ideas on what to do with the program, but prioritizing what will benefit the greatest number of users, and they believe analytics will help with that prioritization - although it's not a complete solution, which is presumably why Cakewalk will continue to use other methods to gauge user sentiment.
 
 

Seems to me that statistics can be applied pretty easily to establish solid numbers from a small sample.  Seriously.  I find it difficult to believe that any significantly better info will be gathered by canvasing the entire user base.
 
This is where I fall back to my standard approach in situations like this.  If something doesn't make sense, then I obviously don't have all of the information necessary to understand.  There is one other possibility, but I happen to believe that The Bakers are a pretty smart bunch.
 
There has to be something bigger than basic time-in-motion analysis going on here.  I personally don't believe that Sonar is so far refined and feature rich at this point that this is where the lowest hanging fruit is.
 
But I have been wrong before.
 
BTW, Craig, I stumbled across a utube (2 parts) of Mitch Gallagher interviewing you.  I really enjoyed that.  The point you made about 60s/70s music being "better" because the musicians had other people dealing with recording was pretty strong, IMO.  Maybe THAT is what Cake is trying to tackle.  Even that appears on much higher limbs (to me) than a whole bunch of other stuff hanging there in front of us.
 
 
 
 
 

John T
I do think that thing about the camera is a dubious analogy though. I mean, it's not like the analytics are listening to your music.

Yes, with the painting analogy it's more like "are you using sable-hair or camel-hair brushes"?

BobF
 
 
There has to be something bigger than basic time-in-motion analysis going on here.  I personally don't believe that Sonar is so far refined and feature rich at this point that this is where the lowest hanging fruit is.

That's the thing, I think. If they'd said "hey everyone, we literally can't think of a single thing to add or fix until we get this analytics data", then one could reasonably raise an eyebrow at that. But that's clearly not the case.
 
They seem to be seeking to broaden their understanding of the users, and taking a long term view about methods of improvement.

ampfixer
Had they just said "hey, now you can directly export to LANDR if you want to use their service", I believe it would have floated by as a non-issue.
 
 

The day anything floats by as a non-issue in these forums, I will eat everyone's hats.

John T
I do think that thing about the camera is a dubious analogy though. I mean, it's not like the analytics are listening to your music.

I guess I'm paranoid.  It really bugs me, on principle, that my actions may be recorded, then analyzed.  Having my purchases tracked is one thing (and I'm not crazy about that either) but I don't want anyone tracking me.  I feel the urge to go back to paper mail, talking to people in person and maybe retiring to the forest to maintain the idea of freedom.  To make sure someone isn't looking over my shoulder.  The age of terror has led to the age of tracking which has led to everyone terrorizing everyone else.  My newest CPAP machine now has a built in cell phone so that my every breath can now be transmitted to the local laboratory for analysis.  Needless to say I've turned that function off.
 
On a legal note, say I kill my wife and then lie that I was at a local bar when it happened.  After a bit of research, the autorities take me in and say they have proof I was at home at the time because Cakewalk analytics recorded that I clicked the Insert Track button shortly before the neighbours called 911.
 
[I don't have a smart phone, nor do I buy coffee at Starbucks]

ampfixer
They seem to delight in bringing the heat upon themselves by advertising new features that really should be non-issues. Analytics, a new export option, a new menu. These are relatively minor changes that Cakewalk turns into major issues. They must like getting kicked every morning. 

I truly encourage Cakewalk to announce features like Analytics ahead of time along with an explanation. I with they'd done the same with LANDR along with a similarly well-written description.
 
They clearly want to improve the product for everyone and are working to find better ways to obtain market research - this is a good thing.
 
Suggestion: If they leave the analytics logs un-encrypted and let us see them before being shipped off, I might support Analytics as I'd know what type of info they are collecting on me.
 

ampfixer
Most, if not all, the major software packages I have include a check box during the install. It says "would you like to help xxx improve the quality of the product". If you check it then it turns on analytics. I think Cakewalk would be better off if they did this rather than make a huge announcement to say it's coming.

I'd like to think you're right, but remember the "Cakewalk doesn't tell us what's coming up" complaints, and IIRC LANDR was announced the day of the release and that didn't stop people from making a big deal about it. (Perhaps if CW had announced it in advance, CW might have thought "yeah, that's a good point, we should make it a separate installer" although of course the haters would still have hated). Also, if that analytics check box had just shown up, I bet most people would not have checked it. By describing the nature of the analytics, people could make an informed decision about whether they wanted to participate or not. 
 
Whatever Cakewalk does, some people (often the same ones) will complain about it. I hope that doesn't deter Cakewalk from trying to be open and transparent for those who appreciate that level of dialog. But to be fair, I doubt that Cakewalk thought this would be anything other than a fairly innocuous "FYI" type of announcement, given that they made it clear that participation is entirely optional, no personal data or other programs are monitored, and if you do choose to participate you can choose to be anonymous or not. I would expect the response to that would be "Okay, thanks for letting us know," not "Cakewalk will use this as a way to dumb down the program and blow off professional users."
 

Paul P
 
On a legal note, say I kill my wife and then lie that I was at a local bar when it happened.  After a bit of research, the autorities take me in and say they have proof I was at home at the time because Cakewalk analytics recorded that I clicked the Insert Track button shortly before the neighbours called 911.
 

Um. Strange example. I'm really not sure what point you're making here.

komposer
I don't feel the need to post very often, but I visit nearly everyday and I appriciate the tips, the personalities and the social drama this little corner on the web provides. I don't expect that will change with my decision to NOT install any update which includes this new analytics component. That's just my choice. Think of me however you may.

My user profile includes many of the traits that Noel has outlined earlier in this thread. I'm a gigging musician who has logged many hours as a recording engineer in a major music school while pursuing my music degree, recorded and produced three full length "albums" in the 90's in "pro" studios, and now spend most of my free time learning how to produce music ITB, which includes recording my own and my current band's music.

My other "pays the mortgage" job as a web developer and designer requires a familiarity and comfort with using and understanding analytics. It's part of my world and has been for many years, but this announcement has got to be one of the dumbest things I've heard in a long time. It's so stupid I can only chuckle and shrug my shoulders... "Oh well! Fool me once (Rapture Pro) but not again with this latest joke of an idea. I get it now."

Why does this bother me so much that I'm willing to say this on a public forum? Because I've been a customer since HS 6 and followed the upgrade path up to SPlat 2016 and I feel compelled to speak up as a person and and artist.

For example, imagine you are a person who paints and the person who provides you with art supplies, let's say your canvas', just informed you that these canvas' you enjoy so much now come with a camera that sits on your shoulder and watches you while you paint. Oh sure you can turn it off, but it's on when you sit down to paint, or it isn't if you turned it off. Wait, is it on or off? Did this latest update turn it back on? Cripes, where is that setting again?

My creativity is my private realm until I decide otherwise. There is no way I can support Cakewalk's development if this latest unnecessary feature is implemented.
 
(edited because the text didn't format correctly)

Hi komposer,
 
With all due respect I don't think you have done enough research on this subject to make a judgement that it is "dumb". You are of course entitled to your opinion and I guess this would also make the thousands of highly successful companies some of which are giants like apple, google and microsoft also dumb in your opinion.
Analytics is not something new - it is widely established to be one of the single most important techniques to improve a product. If anything we are dumb to be so late to be doing this.
 
And regarding your analogy, its not accurate. Our option to turn off analytics is permanent - installing a new update will not lose your preference. There is a very clear toast notification that lets people know whenever analytics is on and every user has the ability to turn it off. I don't see why you would want to not use the product if you can turn it off unless you somehow mistrust Cakewalk. We would never do anything like that since we value our users too much.