2018/06/10 00:30:06
Beepster
Hey, billyboy.
 
If you can get yourself to a physiotherapist (preferably one who knows about musical related medicine/treatment) do it.
 
I had one show me a bunch of hand/arm stretches to keep my tootsies nimble and arms from burning like a mofo. Too complex to describe in text though.
2018/06/10 00:51:01
JohnKenn
And exactly like Beep said regarding stretching and getting limber. So important. Yoga my lifeline to battling the clock, or adjusting to the clock in a graceful manner.
 
In my past practice I saw a triad of curses that are there to take us down, outside the normal aging process. Once these take hold, we got so much working against us. Like being flushed and powerless to swim to the top of the bowl.
 
More diffuse is the mental confrontation with our status of impermanence, once we realize we are not 16 years old and not going to live forever. Can cause so much grief and fear that the mental attitude poisons life and we cut our stay short.
 
Inflexibility. We are all turning into biological cement as part of the grand design. Now inflexible joints and nerves are grating on each other sending signals of pain, leading to reduced mobility.
 
Once reduced mobility is accepted, we are down the drain faster than we can refuse to move any more.
 
Still got some stuff on osteoarthritis to pass on.
 
John
2018/06/10 00:55:15
Leadfoot
Thank you so much for all the info, John. It sure is a blessing having an on site pharmacist here.
2018/06/10 01:09:10
Beepster
When I'm really attempting to do some crazy guit stuff and my body is simply not cooperating I find doing some of the old (light... because I'm a mess these days) standing warmups/stretches from my (short lived) martial arts days. Like "rolling" my shoulders, outstretched arms and doing small to large circles with my hands, doing waist/hip circles, overhead arm stretches and slowed down "kata" strikes/blocks.
 
Although it seems odd to do stretches on other parts of the body to loosen up your hands and forearms it really does help.
 
Yoga, Tai Chi and physio stretches tend to have a lot of overlap. Massage therapy/self massage (giggety) was/is also highly beneficial to me in this regard.
 
I've only had accupuncture once and it was on my back (not focusing on my hand/arm issues) but I'd imagine it would/could be quite effective for localized, guitar related pain.
 
Ice and heat are also amazing natural anti-imflammatories when applied correctly (10-15 mins ice, 10-15 mins heat... repeatt only once if necessary and maybe reduce those times for treating your arms/hands because there isn't as much tissue as in your back or legs).
 
Regular scale practice and warmups are massively important and helpful too... but due to my back being my larger issue I generally just noodle around a bit and launch into things because otherwise I'd do my scale regimen and then have to lay down... lulz).
2018/06/10 01:17:52
Jyotishvarii
Hi John This got my interest and I have a question for you
I dont know a lot about prescription drugs since was I trained as a naturopath and secondary in homeopathy
There are many natural anti inflammatory agents from nature turmeric being one of the most important
Do you have any thoughts on combining something like turmeric with the non steroidals for treating old age bone degeneration  I advised my clients to take over the counter naproxen for arthritis pain  It delivers good to marginal results depending on how bad the condition had deteriorated with the years
2018/06/10 02:04:35
JohnKenn
Jyoti.
 
Naproxen was not a good choice for osteoarthritic patients in retrospect, except for the benefit of increased motion and mobility in spite of the masked pain. This is an example of treatment making the actual disease get worse more rapidly over time.
 
Because osteoarthritis has only a minimal inflammatory component, a non specific anti inflammatory does more damage than good. Turmeric is a miracle herb, from ancient past until today. Multiple chemical pathways to defeat inflammatory response. One of the Ayurvedic plants in a 7000 year old compendium along with ginger, asafoetida, etc.
 
Application to osteo wear and tear arthritis in addition to traditional NSAID's would have minimal benefit. Turmeric however useful in a host of other immune disorders when taken at a 2-3 gram level dietary supplement per day.
 
Leadfoot, thank you for your kind words. Got some more to share about this.  Hope will bring the condition and treatment options into a better perspective.
 
John
2018/06/10 04:15:25
Jyotishvarii
Okay John you have got me confused
I have observed clients getting the benefit of over the counter ibuprofen for old age arthritic pain Their quality of life was restored as much as possible being able to get around with less debility
You are saying that this is a bad thing Please explain where you are coming from
Your reference to yoga is more important than any advice but what is your problem with ibuprofen or naproxyn to get a little old lady up and moving around
2018/06/10 04:31:37
eph221
As my korean neurologist says:  *no ibuprofen! REBOUND HEADACHE!*
2018/06/10 21:49:27
JohnKenn
Jyoti,
 
Not advocating letting a little old lady writhe in pain. My point is that ibuprofen or naproxen or plain aspirin, though it will work for pain, is not the best choice managing osteoarthritis for anybody. Even though the TV commercials say otherwise. Will try to explain.
 
Got to respect the NSAID’s. They are miracle drugs but dangerous, especially in the elderly and those of any age prone to the bad side effects. Some may have sprained a shoulder and given a treatment of say 800 mg ibuprofen three times daily, which is illegal to administer without an RX.  Same with naproxen. Doc puts you on naproxen 500 mg but you can’t get 500 mg naproxen without a prescription. Silly as it sounds, you sprain a knee and your friend gives you one of his naproxen 500 mg pills. Both have committed a federal crime in the legal arena. Then you look out on the isle and the same drug is available to anyone with no regulation. Naproxen 220 mg and ibuprofen 200 mg in bulk on a discount.
 
Reason for this is it is hoped the consumer will limit intake to one or two pills and stay in a safer zone rather than take several 800 mg pills and bleed to death while their kidneys are failing.
 
Ibuprofen and naproxrn, aspirin, ketoprofen over the counter are non specific to the Cox-2 enzyme (bad inflammation). They take down COX-1 protection (good inflammation). This is especially dangerous for the elderly with long term maintenance, and makes the arthritis condition worse while assaulting the gut, circulation, kidneys and the heart.
 
You can think of osteoarthrisis as a condition starting in the womb. A baby moves an arm and the cartilage in the joint is damaged. The body quickly starts the repair process and everything is okay for a few decades.
 
Our joints are encased in a “synovial” sac filled with organic lubricants. The cartilage pads cover the bone. The bone has exquisite pain receptors on the surface that are shielded by the cartilage. It is when the cartilage is worn thru to the bone that we start to experience pain. Couple ramifications of this. First, it is not something that just happened overnight. Osteo can take many years to develop before you are aware of the condition. Second, that new painful knee is a canary in the coal mine warning. It may mean that other joints are not far behind throwing up a new flag. Simple X-Rays can assess the risk.
 
The damage going on with the joints requires continual supply of nutrients, oxygen carried by the blood. We just get to a point where we are falling apart faster than we can repair, but we are still fighting to repair.
 
Perfusion to the synovial capsule is difficult and requires as much unrestricted circulation as possible to deliver repair materials. Remember that osteoarthritis is not an inflammatory condition.
 
The non COX-2 specific NSAID’s, by cutting down COX-1, defeat the good inflammation that keeps micro circulation going. The result is that the repair materials are not delivered efficiently and breakdown continues at an accelerated rate. Take two identical twins with the same degree of the condition. Treat one with naproxen and give the other nothing. Come back in a year and the one treated with naproxen will have had some pain relief, but the condition is now worse than the untreated twin.
 
This is where things like Tylenol, meloxicam, glucosamine come in.
 
Historically, I remember the late 1990’s when meloxicam under the brand Mobic was still waiting for FDA approval. The fanfare was off the wall. If there could be a rockstar drug, it was meloxicam.
 
Meloxicam was the first drug of it’s class to have 99 percent plus affinity for COX-2. This was a godsend to people who needed an NSAID but could not tolerate the gut erosion of other available agents, side effect of unwanted COX-1 inhibition. At the time, nabumetone (Relafen) was as good as it got but not great.
 
Irony was around that time, we developed Vioxx and Bextra and later Celebrex, which were virtually 100 percent COX-2 specific. Vioxx and Bextra later taken off the market due to deaths from cardiac complications. Celebrex still there. Expensive but available. In the excitement about the pure COX-2 inhibitors, meloxicam was forgotten and drifted off as a cheap generic nobody used. The drug is however excellent. A bit lighter duty, but if it controls the pain, it will do so without cutting circulation off from the joints.
 
Meloxicam, Celebrex are safer NSAID’s for osteoarthritis. Tylenol also okay. Glucosamine compounds over the counter to start rebuilding the cartilage if there is enough left to build back up, and repairs other joints that are not yet giving signs of trouble but getting close to breakdown.
 
Only two other concerns about any NSAID if you are also taking daily low dose aspirin for stroke protection. Separate by at least 4 hours from the aspirin or they will get in the way and you lose the protective effect of aspirin. Concern with meloxicam is that if you have a severe sulfa allergy, meloxicam can have a nasty cross reaction. I haven’t seen this in real life, but the chemistry makes it possible.
 
John
2018/06/10 23:40:46
Jyotishvarii
Oh great  Now you tell me  Your explanation of old age arthritis is good  Where were you 30 years ago when I needed this information
I always told my patients that they could take their morning aspirin and their ibuprofen at the same time  They are related in the same family They mix well adding even more to stroke prevention
Now I’m responsible for the carnage of stroke victims I have left by the side of the road
Go ahead and dig the knife in deeper How did I fuk this one up
I don’t expect you to have to know this but what is it in the blood with aging that predisposes us to stroke and what is aspirin's role in stroke prevention
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