2018/06/13 02:06:43
Jyotishvarii
john the detail and data are great  Could you elaborate on something you said that I may be able to use in my swan song fruits and veggies tour The retort from "cannibals" as you hilarious call them is that we have canine incisors placing us in the category of meat eaters Then the religious s**t of god declaring us to eat meat
 
You said that there are aspects of our physiology that separate us from carnivorous animals  Please share so I can have some better ammunition in the arguments still ahead
2018/06/13 04:00:34
eph221
God gave us dominion over animals in order to take care of them, not EAT THEM!  I'd like any meat eater to watch culling videos of any animals flesh which you eat.  You'll instantly change.
2018/06/14 02:40:01
JohnKenn
Eph,
 
If we could all see this issue the way you do, the earth would be a much better place.
 
We were slowly evolving out of cannibalism when the last ice age took us back several hundred thousand years in our diet, ultimately inflicting profound retrograde effect on spirit and mind as well as body. My opinion only, but the gradual change in our preference for food was taking us in an ordained proper direction toward a more subtle source of nutrition and a more universal outlook, empathy with all life forms. On the physical level, we are trying to get back to sunlight or as close as we can be. A plant based source is more compassionate to other evolved life forms doing their thing and not happily surrendering their life to fill our gut. We got to kill something to live, but plants suffer less than sentient animals and their families. Your thoughts about caring for other entities as a duty was clearly part of a higher native American cosmology which we destroyed quite effectively for the present.
 
Jyotishvarii, you just invited another tirade... so here it be...
 
At your leisure, check me out on these claims. Think they are correct and should give you some ammo trying to educate sense into the zombie corpse eaters. Land mammals can be sectioned off into fruit eaters, grain eaters, meat eaters and omnivores. Omnivores overlap in some of the characteristics, but the carnivore adaptations are largely absent in a human. Purpose is to objectively look at physiological structures side by side and draw an unbiased conclusion. No good guys or bad guys. No religious crap.
 
The incisor teeth in a human are related to the structure in a gazelle as a prototype, not a carnivore. Architecture is for grabbing branches, swinging the neck and removing leaves. Not ripping apart flesh.
 
Some stuff I forget about stereo vision, short field accommodation to reach out and grasp things like a fruit, and hand configuration in higher forms absent in carnivores that are focused on a herd of animals in the distance.
 
The developed carnivore incisors are integrated into a dental structure well evolved for the task with other modifications common to carnivores that the human lacks, but shares with the herbivore. Take my tirade forward as humans and herbivores are like this, carnivores are like that.
 
Hinging of the jaw is open and shut with a carnivore and the molars are less evolved. Sideways movement of the jaw to grind grains isn’t there because the function of the carnivore is to rip and swallow.
 
Still in the mouth, a couple artifacts of interest.
 
Carnivores mostly crouch in a hidden area scanning the horizon. They go out and strike with speed and drag off the prey to a den to devour or make quick work of the kill on a plain and retreat. The herbivore is out on the plain eating grass all day in the sun. Cooling through sweat is less a priority for the carnivore than the plain vegetarian, so the sweat glands are poorly evolved in carnivores. The animal carnivore by design turfs cooling when needed to heat transfer through the tongue. You have seen a dog panting with tongue hanging out. Other things about the mouth structure not able to suck water given the carnivore optimization, so the true carnivore laps water with the tongue, but can’t suck thru a straw.
 
Presence of salivary amylase present in humans and herbivores for pre digestive breakdown of starches. Not present in carnivores because useless in their diet.
 
Vitamin C dependence. Dog doesn’t have to take vit C tabs because the body produces it. Human body relying on fruits gets the source there and thus relies on fruits or we have bad things happen in the deficit.
 
Acidic environment of the stomach is way more harsh than a human or herbivore because of the assigned task of breakdown of bones, hair, gristle. Inflict the stomach acidity of a carnivore on a human and you will be quickly reaching for the Tums.
 
Intestinal structure is a major departure across the groups, and we fall squarely in there with the herbivores.
 
There is no such thing as fresh meat, fresh fish. Once the entity is dead, you got a decaying corpse with all the terrible rot and the ramifications of eating putrefied death. The blessings are quick to follow.
 
The carnivore intestine is about 3 times the length of the body and lacking evolved convolutions in the passage. Intent is to ingest the corpse, extract the needed nutrients and shoot it out of the body as quick as possible before the rot of decay products could even poison a carnivore.
 
Humans and herbivores have a way more long and complex intestinal tract made to extract nutrients from a vegetable source in a more efficient way, about 12 times the length of our bodies. Slower by design since vegetable diet decomposes more slowly. The food can pass slower and not be nuked by the poisons in a rotting piece of flesh.
 
Some other stuff but losing focus after my 4th beer.
 
Curse for the cadaver eater goes beyond the mindset of insensitivity. Terrible chemicals and byproducts, names like cadaverin, putrecin, other carcinogens are being absorbed taking our life down quicker than we can poison ourselves with the last quarter pounder.
 
If any advice, listen to Eph. He done in one sentence what it took me too long to make a case for.
 
Jyoti, if you need anything more as far as studies, chemistry to put the fear of fire and brimstone into the cannibals, I’m as far away as this respected forum.
 
Curious. Where are you now in your presentation tour. Thought it was over for you and you could finally go home to the rocking chair.
 
John
 
edited... to add the observation that a carnivore has almost unlimited capacity to process and deal with cholesterol intake. Dump that load on a human and very bad things quickly happen
2018/06/14 22:58:04
Jyotishvarii
John thank you thank you thank you for the talking points I have already used them with deadly aim in my presentation today countering the inevitable humans are meat eaters argument because of incisor teeth
 
No rocking chair for me because life is so incredible I want to be active and engaged until I drop dead in the middle of some meaningful social service project
The fruits and veggies stretching exercise breathing control stress reduction tour is a hard thing to give up  It gives good money far more than I think I am worth  I get to travel take my family and work as much or little as I want  If I were 30 years younger this would be a dream job  The kids are envious because I can get out and go to concerts and see and hear the good life in the fast lane and get paid a hefty days wage for a 2 hour talk  They are bummed because I had the opportunity to see Sir Sly live here in Dallas tonight but waited too long and the tickets are sold out. One thing about getting old is that there are less and less things worth standing in line for
 
My employers are turning this series into a long term study to follow up with attendees and see what they have applied but most importantly for them linking the outcome to reduced doctor visits
It is sad because they want radiant health for everyone but the purpose has nothing to do with the good of the individual The only goal is to keep the person out of the doctors office and out of the pharmacy lines so insurance premiums will not be eaten up  It is only about profit behind the smile
 
Reporting from a stagnant hotel room in Dallas with the temperature near a hundred degrees outside The windows havent been opened in years and the smell of bleach and perfumed cleaners is one big curse of my travel the way it affects me
 
Side note on the music clips you posted You may be a lot of things but a mediocre musician is not one of them Give yourself some better credit and quit putting yourself down
 
To Eph I second that the planet would be a more harmonious place if we looked on other less evolved life forms the way you do  It is my wish that you have the means to spread your message
2018/06/16 18:21:39
eph221
A german tourist arrives at the french border.  The border guard says:  I must ask a few questions of you...  Name...the tourist gives his name.  Occupation?  He says * No just here for the weekend.*
2018/06/16 23:13:37
Voda La Void
eph221
A german tourist arrives at the french border.  The border guard says:  I must ask a few questions of you...  Name...the tourist gives his name.  Occupation?  He says * No just here for the weekend.*




Craigslist had a French army rifle for sale, never fired, dropped once.  
2018/06/17 18:31:31
jamesg1213
eph221
God gave us dominion over animals in order to take care of them, not EAT THEM!  I'd like any meat eater to watch culling videos of any animals flesh which you eat.  You'll instantly change.


 
Seen all that and I still eat meat. If we didn't farm cows, sheep and pigs, they wouldn't exist now. I'm also an atheist, so 'God' doesn't come into it. Having said that, have you actually read the bible?
 
''Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.''
 
Genesis 9:3 (they always had tricky time signatures)
2018/06/17 18:49:43
paulo
eph221
God gave us dominion over animals in order to take care of them, not EAT THEM! 




If we weren't meant to eat them, they wouldn't taste so nice.
2018/06/18 00:25:46
iRelevant
Thanks for all the interesting reading John. New knowledge to me here. Wasn't aware of the side effects of Aspirin. Been a vegetarian for decades, still got put on the baby aspirin. Guess being an ex-chain smoker and beer lover didn't balance it out :)
 
2018/06/18 00:37:09
iRelevant
jamesg1213
eph221
God gave us dominion over animals in order to take care of them, not EAT THEM!  I'd like any meat eater to watch culling videos of any animals flesh which you eat.  You'll instantly change.


Seen all that and I still eat meat. If we didn't farm cows, sheep and pigs, they wouldn't exist now. I'm also an atheist, so 'God' doesn't come into it. Having said that, have you actually read the bible?
 
''Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.''
 
Genesis 9:3 (they always had tricky time signatures)


I'm not a fan of fundamentalism of any color, and I think we are wandering off limits here. 
Anyways, I think it's pretty clear that it was not part of the original game plan for humans having to kill to eat.
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