2018/06/09 10:25:10
Glyn Barnes
Any one looking for a simple intro into modes could do worse than play around with an Appalachian dulcimer and its various modal tunings with drone harmonies.
2018/06/09 14:52:31
Starise
A big thank you Beepster for all of that info.  I hope to have time this weekend to look at some of this in depth. I've been around YouTube listening to videos. I think I have a rough grasp of it so far.
 
One thing that got me hooked on this was I visited a local pro musician class where this guy who has played for most of his life professionally was talking about all of this and could basically pull any of it out of thin air with playing examples. Very impressive.
 
I just ordered a book called " Elementary Rudiments of Music " by Barbara Wharram. Most musicians won't need most of the info in the beginning of the book, later on though there is some interesting info in it. Makes a good refresher too. I have a first version of the book I picked up inexpensive online used. I think there's a second version.
Sad to say, I've been playing for years but never went too far into this.
 
Not difficult to find the ideas on piano. Other instruments though maybe not so much. I play a lot in alternate tunings.
I think I've been playing a lot of Dorian disguised as Ionian.
2018/06/09 23:45:44
Beepster
Starise
 I just ordered a book called " Elementary Rudiments of Music " by Barbara Wharram. Most musicians won't need most of the info in the beginning of the book, later on though there is some interesting info in it. Makes a good refresher too. I have a first version of the book I picked up inexpensive online used. I think there's a second version.




No prob at all, man. You've always been a very helpful and generous chap and I love nerding out on this stuff anyway.
 
BTW that is the EXACT book I used to reference/verify all the crazy charts, theories and other wackiness I came up with whilst mostly bedridden all those years ago. It's a great resource and instructional guide BUT it is definitely hardcore traditional theory steeped in the much less linear classical way of teaching. It essentially covers modes in the scattered and indirect way most teachers and methods do.
 
For me it was a WHOLE pile easier to understand once I unlocked the modal grid and Circle of Fifths on my own.
 
That said working through all the exercises in that book really will teach you proper theory, how to write/read notation, understand how chords and scales are constructed and even touches on cadences/composition theory.
 
The section on intervals, triads and inversions were extremely useful for me in particular.
 
My ex got for her university level music class and loaned it to me... and I never got around to giving it back.
 
Woops. I don't think she was getting as much out of it as I did though and I'm pretty sure she just wanted me to translate it for her. lol
 
As always, if I'm around I am available to help with what I can.
2018/06/09 23:48:41
Beepster
Oh and I used the Hal Leonard Scale and Chord books for my initial mapping/"research". They aren't organized the way I'd prefer but all the raw info is in them if you know how to sort through it.
 
Cheers.
 
2018/06/11 13:09:24
Voda La Void
Great posts Beepster.  I have read and re-read.  I'm surprised how much of that made sense to me already.
 
I've decided to change my practice approach to scales now and redirect myself to the various modes of the same scale.  I did that a little this weekend and was eye opening.  So, I'll stick with D major scale (or B minor, I guess), for the song I'm working on at the moment, and I want to practice the 7 modes in that scale.  And then just see how that works out...for starters.
 
 
 
 
2018/06/11 21:00:13
Beepster
Right on, Voda. I've got some other tips/tricks that describe the "stacking" of modal patterns on the fretboard that might help you along but see where you get with that and I'll try to provide more info (or even fretboard maps if they'll format properly on the forum... I've had trouble with that in the past) when I get a chance.
 
It really is mindblowing once you see the whole grid. Like forehead smacking "how in the crap did I not see that sooner" type mindblowing. It sounds like you may be approaching that on your own though which is awesome.
 
Cheers!
2018/06/11 21:12:11
bayoubill
The only mode that matters is Am
2018/06/12 13:45:50
Starise
I can tell you guys are heavy into this. I am too, it's just that if I get too much of it at once my eyes glaze over. My attention jar gets full quickly. I'll need to go back and digest this like an elephant- One bite at a time.
 
The practical use for this for me is the be able to change things up on the fly or recognize patterns. Always helps when trying to guess what your partner is playing when you don't know the tune. All of it has a direction we just need to find out what that is. Kinda boring to accompany on the bass notes. I mean no ill will to bass players. Even they like to juice it up.
2018/06/12 19:22:42
Beepster
Unfortunately it does require a bit of an attention span at first. I know I've tossed a lot at you here but really focus on my first post. You can ignore the Harmonic and Melodic mode stuff until you learn the natural modes in sequence.
 
I HIGHLY recommend approaching this by studying what I wrote in my OP (particularly the sequence of the modes) then writing it out on chart paper (make your own notation staff, guit tab "staff" and fretboard charts with a ruler then filling them in) then comparing those to a scale book (such as the Hal Leonard Scale Finder I mentioned earlier but any good scale book that includes all modes will work) to confirm your work. Then pick up the guit and play it all in 1st position (Index finger at the first fret and using open strings whenever the mode/scale allows).
 
Start on C Major then work through the Circle of Fifths.
 
Here's a bit of a shortcut that may help...
 
Take your scale book and locate the "E" section. Learn all the modes (in the order I posted them in) from the low open E to the high open E (this covers two octaves of the mode being played). Really drill these patterns into your head until tthere's no shaking them loose. Jam out in the modes by droning on the appropriate E chord (so E Major for Major modes, E minor for minor modes and E diminished for the Locrian mode... I posted the chord qualites of the natural modes in series in one of my later posts if you are unsure).
 
Doing this will create 7 distinct patterns on the fretboard in first position. Pay attention to the two accessible notes we are not playing on the high E string as well (they will be the same notes played on the low E) so that when you start really manipulating these patterns/modes you don't get lost. I actually play these patterns up to the third note on the high E when practicing for that reason BUT leaving them off is better for getting used to the "moods" of each mode.
 
Once you know these 7 patterns in 1st position by heart lay out a Major scale "vertically" on your low E string from the open low E up to the 12th fret (which is of course your octave). Just for clarity here are those notes...
 
0 (open) = E
2nd fret  = F#
4th fret = G#
5th fret = A
7th fret = B
9th fret = C#
11th fret = D#
12th fret = E (8ve)
 
Now take those 7 modal patterns you've learned in 1st position and lay them out on to the fretboard sequentially starting each pattern in those positions. Do not (for now) play any notes "lower" (closer to the Nut) than the starting note. Some of these patterns are tricky outside of 1st position but are great exercises and reveal exactly how the modes "stack" to create a grid on the fretboard (CAGED theory actually draws from this concept but I find it a really incomplete way of teaching/describing the full range of modal theory).
 
So that will look like this and what the hell I'll include the chord qualities again for your convenience...
 
0 (open) = E = Ionian (Major) = EMaj
2nd fret  = F# = Dorian = F#min
4th fret = G# = Lydian = G#min
5th fret = A= Lydian = AMaj
7th fret = B = Mixolydian = BMaj
9th fret = C# = Aeolian (Nat minor) = C#min
11th fret = D# = Locrian = D#dim
12th fret = E (8ve) = Ionian again and you can repeat the entire pattern/sequence above the 12th fret from here.
 
You have now mapped the entire fretboard for the key of E Major.
 
This pattern is unbreakable (as long as you are playing in the natural modes). You can apply this pattern to ANY key by simply choosing a root note, finding it on your low E string and starting the pattern from that fret instead of the open E. Once you run out of notes before hitting the 12th fret play the next pattern as close to the nut as you can (they will either start on the open low E or on the 1st fret... no exceptions).
 
By doing this you are getting a fastrack to being able to play every mode into every key by just using that simple trick. HOWEVER every single mode and every single key can be performed in ANY of those seven patterns by just a) choosing the correct position and b) changing the starting point within the pattern... which is probably a little brain bendy without actually doing it soo don't worry about that just yet but it should become apparent once you start working through all the keys in 1st position which is the proper, non lazy way (but more complicated) to approach this.
 
Hopefully I didn't screw any of that up. I have reams of Notepad docs and a half finished website detailing all of this but I'm not ready to start digging all that up at this moment.
 
At some point I intend to offer customized lessons over the intertubes for guit players. Gotta get some other crap finished first though (like FINALLY finishing/releasing my old band's album which is just about ready and sounding pretty slick... or so my bandmates said).
 
Cheers.
2018/06/12 19:30:07
Beepster
BTW, people here keep referring to Dorian as a partly Major scale. It is not.
 
The defining tonal step that defines whether a scale is Major or minor is the 3rd step (III). Dorian's 3rd is minor therefore it is a minor scale. It's just that the Major 6th gives it that "happier" feel but that means nothing when dealing with scale qualities.
 
That said Locrian has a minor 3rd as well but the diminished 5th kind of (sort of) supercedes that. So it is minor AND diminished which is likely why it is sometimes referred to as a "half diminished" scale. I'm assuming a "fully" diminished scale only appears in the form of symmetrical scales such as the whole half/half whole scales (it's been a while but I think that's the deal).
 
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account