2018/06/14 13:54:17
Starise
I wonder if the chord recognition in Cubase and Studio One 4 are similar. Can't beat the price of that app. Thanks for the heads up.
2018/06/14 14:43:29
bayoubill
Most important think to do is to be able to hear,recognize and if possible sing the intervals from the root of what ever mode you're working in without an instrument. Hearing an interval in your mind without having to play it to know what it sounds like. Root and 3rd (maj and min) / Root and 5th/ Root and 7th( min and maj7th) / Root and #4th(same sound as flat 5th) / Root and 6th(maj and min) Root and 9th. 
In other words LEARN these sounds from the Root in your mind.
 
C major (Ionian) Scale intervals;
 
C = root
D = 2nd 
E =3rd
F = 4th
G =5th
A =6th 
B = 7th
D = 9th
F# = #11 (#4th)
A = 13th 
If you know the sounds in your mind listed above without having to play them first on an instrument you have a tremendous jump in where and how you can use them. 
 
This would be the starting point to begin using the info above and thank you Beepster for freely giving this very useful material to the forum!!!
 
Most know the blues scale and you can use the fingerings and licks you already know to get the sounds of all the modes above and actually apply them to the songs you want to play. You must be aware of the material above to use that kind of info. It's important to know the 21 scales but you don't have to drill on them. A thoughtful step at a time will get you results and useful improvement in your playing
 
2018/06/14 20:02:33
Beepster
Indeed, Billy and thanks. I was contemplating going into a diatribe about intervals and what they mean/how they are analyzed... so let's do that now because it is really cool and helpful stuff when dealing with diatonic scale/mode theory (and chord construction).
 
I learned (almost) all this stuff from that book "Elementary Rudiments of Music" Starise mentioned upthread. It really is a fabulous book (although a bit dry and clinical but it IS a textbook so yanno... no pissin' around which I personally like).
 
First off it needs to be noted that the Tone/Semitone sequence of the Major (Ionian) scale is what we use as our "yardstick" for ALL interval measurements. You measure from the "I" step (Root note) up to whatever note you are creating/"solving" your interval with... no matter what. There is a specific naming convention for all the intervals in the Major scale. There is also a specific naming convention/protocol when analyzing/manipulating intervals that do not conform to the Major scale Tone/Semitone sequence.
 
The default terms used in our (unaltered) Major scale yardstick for each interval are as follows...
 
I = Perfect Unison
II = Major 2nd
III = Major 3rd
IV = Perfect 4th
V = Perfect 5th
VI = Major 6th
VII = Major 7th
VIII = Perfect Octave
 
In proper music theory we never use the same letter note twice in the same diatonic scale/key (in theory... once you start using scales with more than 7 notes like Mixo-Blues that goes out the window). So you would never use Gb and G in the same key... you would use F# and G instead.
 
So to maintain that "one letter name per step" principle while being able to cover all 12 keys we instead Sharp (+1 semitone) and Flat (-1 semitone) any notes that do not conform to our Major scale yardstick. It's essentially forcing all these keys and scales to conform to the hard ass rules of the stave. As counterintuitive as it may seem ("why not have 12 letter note names?") it actually works out very elegantly and is very interesting to explore, especially on guitar and/or writing it out by hand.
 
Now I'm going to show you what the procedure is to acheive this on our yardstick and the terms we use (and when we use them) when identifying the interval "qualities" (quality meaning whether the interval is Major, Minor, diminished, augmented, etc) of each step. This is where you need to actually memorize some stuff but it's not too hard.
 
For each step I will use -1, -2 or +1 to indicate how many semitones are being added or removed to/from our interval along with what the proper term is when we do any of those things to said interval.
 
I* = Perfect Unison
-1 = Diminished 1st
+1 = Augmented 1st
 
*Since this is the Root we don't screw with it. We make everything else wrap around it HOWEVER it is fun to contemplate such as the concept of Zero and the like. But yeah, altering this step merely puts you in another key/mode so it serves no practical purpose. If you did though that's the correct terminology (I think).
 
II = Major 2nd
-1 = minor 2nd
-2 = diminished 2nd
+1 = Augmented 2nd
 
III = Major 3rd
-1 = minor 3rd
-2 = diminished 3rd
+1 = Augmented 3rd
 
IV = Perfect 4th
-1 = diminished 4th
+1 = Augmented 4th
 
V = Perfect 5th
-1 = diminished 5th
+1 = Augmented 5th
 
VI = Major 6th
-1 = minor 6th
-2 = diminished 6th
+1 = Augmented 6th
 
VII = Major 7th
-1 = minor 7th
-2 = diminished 7th
+1 = Augmented 7th
 
 
VIII* = Perfect Octave
-1 = diminished 8ve (octave)
+1 = Augmented 8ve (octave)
 
*Just like the "I" (root) we don't bugger with this outside of extreme naval gazing. ;-)
 
First thing to notice is that all steps that start out as "Perfect" can only become diminished (-1 semitone) and Augmented (+1 semitone) while all steps that start out as "Major" have three possibilities, minor (-1 semitone), diminished (-2 semitones) and Augmented (+1 semitone).
 
An easy way to remember this is think of your twelve bar blues. I, IV and V are the chords you are playing and the I, IV and V of our Major scale yardstick are "Perfect". You can only add (Augment) or subtract (diminish) 1 semitone with a "Perfect" interval.
 
The remainder of our steps are II, III, VI and VII... all of which start out as "Major". You will notice that you can subtract up to 2 semitones from these intervals but like the "Perfect" intervals you may only add 1 semitone. So whenever you are on one these four steps of our yardstick the sequence is -1 = minor, -2 = diminished and as with all steps +1 = Augmented.
 
If you have to go beyond these boundaries then you are breaking the laws of diatonic theory which means one of two things... you are using a scale that has more than 7 notes (such as blues scales and the like) or you are misinterpreting the interval/scale/chord/key/etc.
 
Okay, so that is some pretty crazy old school music nerd stuff and probably a little heavy for folks just looking for some new noodling possibilities but it's super useful for understanding a plethora of musical concepts and language.
 
Cheers!
2018/06/14 20:17:25
bluzdog
 Here's my approach:  It all adds up to 9. Harp players have been using this for years and don’t even know it. Let’s say you are playing a blues in the key of A and want to solo in Mixolydian. Mixolydian is the 5th mode so you would look a 4th above it and play the notes from the key of D major but in the spirit of A .
Let’s say you are playing in A minor and want the feel of Phrygian for that spooky White Rabbit intro feel; Phrygian is the 3rd mode so the relative major scale F.
It works with inverting intervals as well. A 4th becomes a 5th when inverted i.e; the distance fromA to D is a 4th. Inversely the distance from D to A is a 5th.  A 3rd becomes a 6th, a 6th becomes a 3rd and on down the line.
I was sitting by a pool in Albuquerque thinking about how to simplify modes when this hit me over the head. If I’m looking for a different flavor this definitely helps. Here’s how I relate to different modes and how they sound:
  • 1 Ionian (I) = The major scale
  • 2 Dorian (II) = Santana - Black Magic Woman
  • 3 Phrygian (III) = Jefferson Airplane - White Rabbit spooky intro
  • 4 Lydian (IV) = I got nothing
  • 5 Mixolydian (V) = Blues Heaven
  • 6 Aeolian (VI) = Natural minor scale
  • 7 Locrian (VII) = minor 7th flat 5, get out there and play with the neighbors.
I couldn't get my head around modes until I started thinking of them in terms of flavors rather than scale steps.
 
Rocky
2018/06/14 20:35:14
Beepster
Nice one, Rocky. Good to see ya.
 
Here's an interesting one (that I just had to whip out the scale book to confirm... but I'm glad I did because it exposed a flaw in my original assumption)...
 
If you overlay the Dorian mode overtop of the Mixolydian mode you get the Mixo-Blues scale.... EXCEPT (and this is the part I had been overlooking) the Mixo-Blues scale also includes a diminished 5th in it's chromatic run.
2018/06/14 20:44:02
Beepster
There are those who are born into this world with raw, natural musical ability.
For the rest of us there is music theory.
 
;-)
2018/06/14 21:50:31
dmbaer
Beepster
if you have any extra thoughts, critiques or opinions



I'll just offer this - something I came up with when I was studying (or trying to study, anyway) harmony.  To memorize the order of the modes, starting with the major scale, this memory aide came in handy: "I Do Please Little Maids And Ladies" (Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian and Locrian). 
 
2018/06/14 21:54:25
Beepster
HA! Nice.
2018/06/15 00:29:17
Leadfoot
Very cool thread... I'm gonna go home and dig up my music theory notebooks I made in college.
2018/06/15 00:52:00
Kamikaze
The Transpose Midi FX in Sonar lets you change the mode of your midi. You can compare the vibe of each mode on music you already have in midi form 
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account