• Techniques
  • Tell me more about flat frequency response? (p.2)
2012/03/07 20:17:10
AT
Pertaining to mixing, you want the flattest room and flattest speakers - ideally.  Although some will argue about the speakers.  If you think about, people will listen to music in all kinds of enviorments and on all kinds of systems.  If you could hear your mix everywhere, you could find a happy medium.  But we have to make do w/ less than that infininte number of monkees.  So most people stick w/ the best system they can use and the flattest room and listen to that mix in other enviroments.  Or that is the way I do it.  My home system is pretty good - but I drag files down to a "pro" studio, esp. for bass.  I also listen to mp3s on my computer here, and on some bookshelf speakers sitting in my living room.  And the car.  And elsewhere until friends don't answer the door when I stop by w/ a CD.  So every room sound different, and every system, and every system in different rooms.  You get the idea.  But the ear is very adaptive, and you can "learn" how music translates to other places when you "learn" your own room.  Not perfectly, but pretty much.

As far as mics, preamps, etc., it is pretty important to remember that the industry was trying to transcribe things perfectly, but feel short.  Some of these imperfections became, desirable.  The U-47 and similiar mikes, the 1073 preamp, studer tape decks.  They were popular and engineers consider them part of the magic of their hits, etc.So capture is more like an art, using the "flavors" these (and other tools) can impart.  But remember, the engineers were trying for perfect.  A funny story is Neve making a distoritionless EQ.  The lab coat guys loved it, the music guys didn't.  They wanted some distortion.  So he puts some of it back into his stuff, now.

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2012/03/07 22:54:07
bitflipper
so the best thing to have is a flat frequency response from the room?

That is the ideal. However, it is impossible to achieve. Even if you were to manage a flat response for the room (only possible in an anechoic chamber, btw), you still have to contend with the frequency response of your ears, which is not only not flat but changes constantly.


The best you can do, in a practical sense, is try to mitigate the most offensive frequency irregularities through speaker placement, acoustical treatments and optional "room correction" (e.g. ARC). Then monitor at a consistent SPL and don't wear hats while mixing.
2012/03/08 08:20:29
Guitarhacker
bitflipper


Then monitor at a consistent SPL and don't wear hats while mixing. 



True that!  

I used to play in a country band and wore a cowboy hat while on stage. It does change things. 


2012/03/08 11:28:35
AT
Maybe that's why momma told me not to wear my ten gallon hat inside!  She new I was gonna be mixing some day.

@
2012/03/08 12:30:58
sharpdion23
Pertaining to mixing, you want the flattest room and flattest speakers - ideally. Although some will argue about the speakers. If you think about, people will listen to music in all kinds of enviorments and on all kinds of systems. If you could hear your mix everywhere, you could find a happy medium. But we have to make do w/ less than that infininte number of monkees. So most people stick w/ the best system they can use and the flattest room and listen to that mix in other enviroments. Or that is the way I do it. My home system is pretty good - but I drag files down to a "pro" studio, esp. for bass. I also listen to mp3s on my computer here, and on some bookshelf speakers sitting in my living room. And the car. And elsewhere until friends don't answer the door when I stop by w/ a CD. So every room sound different, and every system, and every system in different rooms. You get the idea. But the ear is very adaptive, and you can "learn" how music translates to other places when you "learn" your own room. Not perfectly, but pretty much.
Yeah, so far the way I've been doing is bringing it to my living room, van and a friends house to listen.
 
The best you can do, in a practical sense, is try to mitigate the most offensive frequency irregularities through speaker placement, acoustical treatments and optional "room correction" (e.g. ARC). Then monitor at a consistent SPL and don't wear hats while mixing.
Can I use the IK multipedia ARC plugin without the mic and software to try and get the flatest room possible?
 
In this video he says it the ARC measurement mic, software and plugin works as a combined.
2012/03/08 13:13:18
Starise
  In most cases  cases ARC isn't going to be a perfect solution,but then neither are many room treatments. As Bit says,you basically can't get there from here. But you can get close enough to mix productively. In my case ARC took care of a great deal of my room problems and at least made mixing bearable at decent volume levels. A test of my room would reveal a few dips here and there. I offset some of this with headphone mixing and listening to the mix elsewhere in other systems.

  Mixing bass is one of the most frequent problems in the small studio because of the standing waves and the way they interact with the room and your ears. Add to that monitors that can't reproduce the frequencies.

 Like Bit says, your ears adjust to their environment. You have an inner EQ that is constantly trying to overide  the mix as it really is.....sure you still want a go at this??? lol.
2012/03/08 13:59:19
bitflipper
If you use ARC or some other "room correction" system a) use it last, after doing everything else to mitigate acoustical problems, and b) don't expect miracles.

You can do some basic measurements using only SONAR and a microphone, and SPAN. Download Ethan Winer's stepped sine project and follow his instructions. This will get you started by identifying specific problem frequencies so you'll know if subsequent steps are helping, hurting or doing nothing.
2012/03/08 14:08:49
Rain
sharpdion23

Can I use the IK multipedia ARC plugin without the mic and software to try and get the flatest room possible?
 
In this video he says it the ARC measurement mic, software and plugin works as a combined.

I guess it's because of the budget you mentioned. ARC is a bundle ($199 these days) - you get the whole thing. Basically, the mic is used to measure the room acoustics and tell the software which adjustments must be made, the the plug-in is used in your DAW to make those adjustments live on the mixbus.


In fact, I just checked while replying - you can get the bundle for $169 over at Audio Deluxe.


2012/03/08 14:30:37
droddey
Even in a small room, lots of bass traps can work wonders, though it won't ever get totally flat. I got mine pretty close, though it wasn't a typical square space. But there was a lot of 703 in the room.
2012/03/08 18:45:48
Danny Danzi
sharpdion23


@ James. I took a look at the Plugin and I watched some videos about it. In their videos they said it's a combination of three things.
 
1.ARC Mic
2. ARC Software
3. ARC Plugin
 
I'm on a tight budget and I like to work with the things I have inles deemed neccesary.
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@Droddey. What is bass cancellations?
 
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Take a look at this video around 2:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSMJ89iOJY8

If it helps you any...ARC=necessity for me. I'd be out of business if I didn't have it. If you can't hear the right stuff coming through your monitors, you can't make the right calls. Be careful what you buy into when you read people talking negatively about ARC. The ones that have a go at it, don't have it and have never used it. It's rare you'll see someone that set it up correctly come on here and bash it as being garbage.
 
I've read about 12 people that were unhappy with it. With each one, I asked them to try my instructions on how to set it up and offered to help them get it sorted. Some tried what I said and were successful, one man replied back telling me he tried everything I said and still failed. The other know-it-alls that ignored me like I wasn't here kept on bashing it.
 
It works for me and several others that are getting good mixes. When I tell you I'd be out of business without it, I'm not lying. I'd never be able to judge the sound I get through my monitors without ARC. I'd be back to mixing through AKG 240 cans...which was a fair fix for me, but still way short of what I get now.
 
-Danny
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