• Hardware
  • Which 61 key keyboard controller? (p.2)
2017/06/30 12:19:24
GjB
azslow3
+1 to the feel comment. But that is IMHO.
 
For "faders, knobs and pads", while it looks like IMHO or even as an Ad., these are facts. You have following options:
1) controller with original Sonar integration. Nektar LX-61. The only in that category. Faders/Knobs/buttons are simple, but it does what documentation specify.
2) controller dedicated for particular plug-in framework control. NI or Akai Advance. That will not control Sonar except transport, till you switching the board into MIDI mode you use (3) or (6).
3) any other controller when you ready to be limited by:
3.a) Generic Surface plug-in. Tracks control (no buses) + transport + very limited Plug-in mapping. No feedback.
3.b) ACT MIDI plug-in. 8 faders + 8 knobs + 8 buttons (counted including transport!). No feedback.
3.c) (a)+(b) together, will have bad "side effects" when you work with MIDI tracks.
3.d) "MIDI Learn" in Sonar, was broken at many places before, claimed to be fixed in the latest update (I have not checked yet).
3.e) "MIDI Learn" inside VSTi (can be used in parallel with other methods, but can not share controls with them till they are switched on the device or in (6)).
4) keyboard and DAW controller separately, like X-Touch, MCU-Pro, Faderport. All 3 have good Sonar support, but for the first two comments in (5) also apply. Or Console 1 for own and UAD FXes (only).
5*) controller with partial MCU emulation. M-Audio / Behringer Motör. You will need my MackieControl plug-in mod, but it is open source. You will have feedback where hardware support it (for Motör with motor sensors). Partial FX control (hard to setup, manually editing XML files), no SoftSynth control, in ProChannel EQ and Comp. only.
6*) any controller with the number and kind of faders/knobs/pads you like (except Naktar Panorama). You will need my AZ Controller (free to use but proprietary and not open source) and cooperate with me (so spend quite some time) to make it work as you like (all available for surfaces by Sonar functionality can be programmed, specifically for your needs, with feedback on device, computer screed and/or phone/tablet throw network). Technically everyone can configure it for own needs. Practically only one person has managed to make complicated configuration without me).
 
Finally, if you want control plug-ins using Sonar Dynamic Mapping (in options (1),(3) and (6)), you will probably have troubles without yet another my tool


Thank you azslow3 for all of your input there.
Yes, I did notice new things like 'MackieControl' in the settings. I need to work out how to get the best integration possible for my setup. I've only just started playing with the setup today. Thanks again.
2017/06/30 12:23:00
GjB
Jim Roseberry
+1 on the "Feel" factor
 
If you can... go check out several MIDI controllers in person.
It's great that MIDI controllers are so accessible (affordable)... but quality varies radically.
 


Thanks Jim, I quite agree, and I noticed that today.
 
Edit: Sorry everyone. I should have replied to you all individually - but in the same post. I'm sorry to have spammed this thread with too many reply posts. I can't delete them.
 
Jesse G
I purchased the M-audio Code for Christmas as a gift to myself and haven't looked back.  
 
Take a closer look at the M-Audio CODE 61


 
Thanks Jesse G.
 
I just bought the Code 61 today! It is better quality than I had expected - after researching it for the past week or two.
I actually really like it, and the keys feel really nice, too.
The only thing I am a tiny bit disappointed about is this:
 

So, I'm curious about the best way to get the maximum Code 61 integration setup with Sonar.
The keyboard works well to play sounds in Sonar, but I was hoping that most of the other stuff could be setup with just the import of an ACT file. Anyway, very early days yet. Baby steps. Thank you all.
2017/06/30 14:32:16
mettelus
Alexey (azslow3), who posted above, is an excellent resource for controllers. If you hit snags during setup, he has a lot of insight and resources he has made to get the most out of a controller with SONAR.
2017/06/30 14:53:43
azslow3
GjB
So, I'm curious about the best way to get the maximum Code 61 integration setup with Sonar.
The keyboard works well to play sounds in Sonar, but I was hoping that most of the other stuff could be setup with just the import of an ACT file. Anyway, very early days yet. Baby steps. Thank you all.

"Import ACT file" is not going to work. You can get some functionality with "ACT MIDI" and/or "Generic surface". But even when you get throw all assignments, you will "hit the wall" of limits and bugs. So I repeat, that way you get some functionality, but for sure not "the maximum", not even reasonable.
 
Not the maximum, but reasonable and fast to setup results you can get using the following:
1) switch Code to MackieControl mode. Check the documentation and/or guides for using it with Ableton (in the part what you should do on Code hardware side)
2) in the Sonar Preferences, MIDI, enable Code MackieControl input and output. They should be visible as "Code 25 (Port 3)" / "Code (MackieControl)". Important they are "Port 3" or explicitly marked as "Mackie" (for input and output)
3) in the Sonar Preferences, Control Surfaces, add "MackieControl". Set "Input" and "Output" to mentioned before ports (NOT to other!). In the Control Surface toolbar module you should see "MackieControl" / "Connecting...". And nothing works... that is expected (M-Audio has not implemented Mackie emulation correctly).
4) exit Sonar, follow http://www.azslow.com/index.php/topic,341.0.html . Including "Configuration" section to set "Disable handshake". Your Code should be able to control Sonar now. Tricky part is to find which function is triggered by which buttons (M-Audio has "forgotten" to write the documentation).
 
Finally about "the maximum". AZ Controller (and there is no other options). You will need to invest a lot of time into deciding what you want the device does in Sonar, have patience waiting till I implement that in preset and again time to test the result is working (I do not have the device). "Maximum" does not come for free (in terms of your time, money are not involved since AZ Controller is free to use).
2017/06/30 16:36:36
Jesse G
azslow3, 
 
When is the book coming out,  we can have it as good night time reading.
2017/06/30 17:22:00
azslow3
Jesse G
azslow3, 
 
When is the book coming out,  we can have it as good night time reading.

Easy way to have nightmare, English native speakers will see Putin is hacking there computers from control surface 
 
But thank you for the tip, I better make separate topics on my forum and put the link instead of toomanycharacters here... 
2017/06/30 21:02:06
Jesse G
azslow3
Jesse G
azslow3, 
 
When is the book coming out,  we can have it as good night time reading.

Easy way to have nightmare, English native speakers will see Putin is hacking there computers from control surface 



 
I am burning and throwing out my control surface just at the thought of that.
2017/07/01 00:49:17
auto_da_fe
 If you have Komplete, do not forget Komplete Kontrol.
 
If you do not have Komplete, then it puts it out of the price range.
 
Jeff
2017/07/01 16:23:53
GjB
Yes, thanks mettelus, azslow3 has the resource and knowledge about controllers.
 
azslow3, thank you very much for all of your instructions. I think I've done most of what I'm supposed to have done.
 
But how can we test to see that we have control and have made progress? I can play music of course as before, but I was hoping I could adjust (and animate) the Master volume slider in Sonar for example - with the Master slider on my Code 61. How can we check that we have adequate (or more than before) control? Sorry for the beginner type question.
 
I see that Jesse G has a Code 49. In beginner terms, what example things can you do with Sonar (where you can see the changes happen in Sonar) via your Code 49?
 
Thank you very much. 
2017/07/01 20:54:06
azslow3
The simplest way to check MackieControl plug-in is working correctly is to use transport buttons. Press play and Sonar should do this. If nothing happens, check the routing (Code port used as Input/Output for MackieControl plug-in, you can try to re-select them... it seems like 2017.6 can show one port while using another).
 
If transport is working, that means at least input is connected correctly. What plug-in does with original device you can check pressing "F1" after opening Utilities / Mackie Control - 1. Which buttons/pads on Code correspond to which buttons on MCU is not documented. May be Jesse has found that already. If mode keys are imitated, the behavior can change. Unfortunately Code has no display to show you what is going on. In default mode, select/mute/solo should work as well as pan/volume.
 
To specify what master fader controls, check "Master fader" section in Mackie Control configuration (default is the first hardware output volume).
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