• Software
  • azslows .dll now makes it really possible to seriously look at Reaper.... (p.3)
2018/06/10 17:59:03
michael diemer
I was joking about going from Reaper to Cakewalk.
 
anyway, Reaper let me do everything I did in Cakewalk. It just took longer. It is not very intuitive. 
2018/06/10 19:18:42
azslow3
Anderton
dubdisciple
Even older forms of cross DAW conversion rarely work seemlessly. When I transfer via omf or aaf, I strip project down to most base elements. What azlow achieved is amazing but must be treated in similar manner.

Exactly. It's simply not possible to translate a project using a DAW's proprietary functionality into some other DAW with incompatible proprietary functionality. What you CAN do is translate what those projects have in common, which can be a considerable amount of data and for many projects, may be all that's needed.

That precisely describe the situation.
 
The common part in projects is brighter then OMF and other formats I have checked. F.e. Steinberg has opened VST format, including the way to save presets. Most DAWs use VSTs. Why there is no open format to transfer VST chains (FX bin) current presets for corresponding tracks?
From what I know, the most powerful DAW formats translator is AATranslator. But already in the description it is shown how limited such converters are, they are still just convert the result (audio/video, with some parameters which also can be seen as the result), and not the "project" (FX chains, routing, synth settings, MIDI)
 

Maybe it's possible to map parameters among different proprietary processes designed to create the same end result, e.g., AudioSnap to however Reaper does stretching, but it seems that would be incredibly time-consuming. Or what about locked effects? Maybe it's possible to read all the parameters in the Adaptive Limiter and apply them to a different multiband limiting plug-in. Azslow would know that...I don't. 

I have thought to translate CW slices into REAPER stretch markers (even without AudioSnap Sonar splits audio clips into slices for grooved clips (as in the loop editor) and save that splitting into projects). But since REAPER use Elastique and Sonar Izotope, the result sounds too different to justify the effort. Especially for percussive sounds, the only reasonable way to make the material reasonably stretchable in REAPER is split (REX approach), and there is no way to automate the process without deep sound analysis.
 
With ProChannel EQ to ReaEQ we had quite some fun. We have managed to make them sound more or less the same in the bright range of EQ parameters. Most surprising was the fact resulting Width is original Gain dependent (in addition to the original Q). From that experience I have learned that converting between different plug-ins, even in case they have the same set of parameters, is an art of its own.
 
A bit off-topic: I am currently try to make a preset for A&H Qu-32 (for those who reading my posts think I am just another "REAPER fun boy" now, I still help people with surfaces in Sonar...) which can control ProChannel EQs from 32 strips using Qu EQs for internal strips. MikeyB claims the picture on Qu is more or less the same as in ProChannel, when parameters are transferred "as is" (0..1 in Sonar to 0..127 MIDI in Qu). After ReaEQ, the evidence 2 different EQs can at least somehow match in numerical parameters is a wonder
 
 

Of course there's always the 100% perfect way to open a .cwp project in another DAW so it sounds exactly the same: export all the tracks as stems, import them into the other program, make sure the pan laws are the same, and carry on from there 

Even that is not always possible. I hit one problem in that waterproof concept:
setting the same pan law is sometimes not as easy as it looks like or not possible at all. Not all available in Sonar pan laws can be strictly reproduced in REAPER. And those which can, do not have the same "named settings" to match (ReaCWP tries to apply correct one when possible). So general practical advise: when matching pan laws in different DAWs, do not trust names in preferences.
 
Also note that exporting tracks as whole stems (so from the project beginning) is important for 100% perfect way. While Sonar is sample accurate, REAPER is (by default) time accurate. In practice that means in REAPER original samples in audio files can be not aligned to the project samples (even when the sample rate match!). Under some conditions that can produce a whole sample shift, for most purpose not significant but in some situation audible.
And so another general practical advise when moving between DAWs: when positioning audio elements in musical domain, since in most tempos measures/beats are not on sample boundaries exactly, the audio can be shifted by one sample. In addition, that shift can be different between playing and rendering, even different for different rendering methods. F.e. till recent update, REAPER was aligning to the project samples during playing and rendering but aligning to the item/clip beginning when "gluing". REAPER has an option to align measures/beats to the project samples, but it is not on by default (and since REAPER support project sample rate changes, there can be side effects).
2018/06/10 19:40:35
bapu
FWIW I've translated some of my most complex all audio projects Form SONAR to Reaper using Alexy's plugin. I even posted clips of the SONAR and Reaper exports. The consensus was "they sounded pretty darn close" with some liking the SONAR or some liking the Reaper exports just "a little bit more".
 
Not one routing, send or FX was missed in the translations.
 
I even transferred some Audio+MIDI projects with the same positive results.
2018/06/10 21:32:38
Anderton
azslow3
From what I know, the most powerful DAW formats translator is AATranslator. But already in the description it is shown how limited such converters are, they are still just convert the result (audio/video, with some parameters which also can be seen as the result), and not the "project" (FX chains, routing, synth settings, MIDI)

 
I think SSL sold a program translator awhile ago but didn't get very far with it. 
 

Also note that exporting tracks as whole stems (so from the project beginning) is important for 100% perfect way. While Sonar is sample accurate, REAPER is (by default) time accurate. 



Can you explain why that matters? Sonar exports tracks starting at measure 1, which is the same as time = 0 in Sonar, so it seems Sonar tracks should align perfectly in Reaper.
2018/06/11 00:40:48
chris.r
iRelevant
I think Cakewalk absolutely should hire Azlow on a project basis to improve the MIDI/controller section of the Cake.
He seems to master this area very well. I would love to see a much easier way of taking in use the plentora of new  controller that have become available in recent years.

 
+10 000
2018/06/11 12:14:21
BobF
I tested azslow's converter on my most complex SONAR project a while back.
 
While the structure wasn't what I would've done starting from scratch, it did perform flawlessly and the structure made sense.  Brilliant work - thanks a ton azslow!!
 
This converter and Reaper are my backup plan for SONAR projects.
2018/06/11 14:01:57
The Maillard Reaction

2018/06/11 14:01:58
The Maillard Reaction

2018/06/11 14:17:50
bapu
dj squarewave
Hi,
 How, when, where can you exercise an option to copy the required media assets into your new Reaper project folder?
 
 Does the converter do it, or do you open your new Reaper project and then do a "Save As" with the options you want?
 
 Thank you.


The steps were simple once the dll was in the Reaper->plugins folder.
 
1. Open a new Reaper project
2. File->Open (point to the .cwp file)
3. Save-As
 
2018/06/11 14:19:07
bapu
BobF
 
This converter and Reaper are my backup plan for SONAR projects.



Same for me, but only after Studio One 4 fails to operate for me. 
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