2016/05/09 10:34:31
Jesse G
Below is an SOS article about recording strings,  There are many factors that come into play when recording strings.
Please read the entire article and when you're finished reading, you will have a much better sound.
 
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr99/articles/recstrings.htm
 

2016/05/09 14:21:27
tlw
StariseI had no idea there were so many styles of fiddle playing. It's been said that the irish styles use more of the left hand while Scottish styles are more to do with the bow. I love Irish fiddle ornamentation. The "cuts" are beautifully done and I love the scale modes used. I recently went to see and spoke with one of the best Irish fiddlers in the world. Kevin Burke. If you like this kind of music you'll like Kevin's music.He's an expert in the style of County Sligo. 


Yes, I'm familiar with Kevin Burke, though my tastes lie in a more English direction.

There are dozens of fiddle styles, and at one time there could be quite a variation over a surprisingly short distance even in a small country like England. Once you start looking across Europe and the melting pots of Canada and the USA it's amazing how many different ways people have found of taking an instrument and making it relevant to them.

For southern English fiddle styles you could do worse than starting with these -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLuDQY5_Ee0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb5c2sutirM
The video's a bit wonky at the start of this, but it settles down.
2016/05/09 23:45:45
rumleymusic
Lets not forget one of my favorite fiddle styles, Bluegrass!
 
Here is part of a live concert with a fiddle, guitar, banjo, and bass.  
 
Fiddle: Neumann TLM107 (doubled as voice mic)
Guitar: Neumann TLM107
Banjo: Sennheiser MKH8040
Bass: Ambient only with pickup and Bass Amp.  
 
(oh and a couple C617set's as a main pair for a different group, but used as a "blend" room mic for this group)
Performed in a Glass Blowing Warehouse.
 
https://soundcloud.com/rmap/bluegrass
 
2016/05/13 10:25:00
Starise
Those english fiddle players are crazy :) I have never seen a fiddle fiddle like that! Great music!! I enjoyed the videos.
 
Jesse thanks! I have read this and there's lots of great info in that article. 
 
Daniel you put me to shame with the quality of your recordings on acoustic instruments. All well done! There's a bunch of fellows down my road who meet to play bluegrass every Sat rain or shine. I almost joined up until I learned that I would need to memorize over 100 irish jigs to play the sessions well at my other gig...just not enough time to do both, and I lean more in the irish tradition than bluegrass which makes me sort of an outcast in these parts. Anyone who looks down on bluegrass or any folk tradition doesn't know the chops needed to play it.
 
I took some more of the advice I've gotten here and tried to change as many variables as I could to get a better sound. I tried different polar patterns and mic positions with the gear I already have. I was able to improve my sound a lot in tweaking mic positions and in working with proximity and gain. I got it close but not quite close enough. I would go so far as to say it was almost acceptable. 
 
I'm going to try recording in a different location with the mics I have. I'll use my Zoom H4 as the recorder since that's all I have right now. It has two XLR +48 and will record in 16/44.1 or 24/96. The converters aren't stellar but hopefully passable.  My Shure KSM44 is a very neutral mic and seems to be the best candidate in my collection so far. Probably not as good as a ribbon.  I definitely need a soft approach to this violin...something like a ribbon mic. 
 
If I can't pull it off with what I have I'll have to try and get something that works. I can keep you posted here on progress since maybe this will help someone else.
 
 
 
 
2016/05/17 10:00:52
Starise
UPDATE-
 
I went to a church auditorium with two mics to record the violin. I used an AKG C3000B and a Shure KSM44 mic into a simple Zoom H4 recorder using those XLR connections. 
 
I ended up playing mostly in the dark because the light ballasts made noise and I had to wait between motorcycles going by on the street outside...but I was able to capture something eventually.
 
 
After much experimentation I decided to use both mics at a position of around 4 ft away and slightly above the fiddle at my seated position with both set to cardoid pattern. I could have been fine with only one mic.
 
I wanted to use the acoustics of the space more since it's a large acoustically pleasant space. Using a figure 8 polar pattern on the KSM44 and the C3000B set to pick up the side in M/S wasn't very flattering, nor was using the  Shure KSM44 set to omni, even after repeated positioning tests. These might have been fine for a classical music setting. Since I was looking for a more intimate feel I decided to use both mics set to a cardoid pattern. The space acted more like a place to keep the frequencies and harmonics in check with a very small amount of spill from the sides.
 
This is the track straight from the recorder warts and all. No treatment of any kind. Keep in mind I'm less than 6 months on the fiddle so there are squeaks in this. I plan to do another take without the squeaks soon!
 
https://soundcloud.com/starise/ste-004/s-yyOeB
 
 
2016/05/18 17:30:02
thedukewestern
Hey Starise - !  I dont particularly dislike either the original violin track you posted or the newer one.  While I have limited knowledge of recording violin - I do have extensive knowledge with the ksm 44 - and also recording in not so great rooms.    I do have to agree that the room has much more to do with the sound of our acoustic instruments than we would often wish - however there are ways to get around that. 
 
The ksm44 - here - check this out  https://bandzoogle.com/tr...3313134428/824590.html
 
all the acoustics on this track were recorded with the 44.  The lead mandolin is actually a capo'd, double tracked acoustic miced at point blank range with the 44 - in omni mode...  here's why:
 
omni mode may give you a less direct in your face sound - however it sounds much more "relaxed" and open... as well as you don't get a peak in the presence area of the signal.  So - if your recording something that can possibly get "harsh" like a sax, - you grab one of those reflection filters, set your 44 in omni - and you can get the mic pretty close to something that might come off less balanced in a cardiod pattern. 
 
There are times when I have had to record a very soft whistle - so - totally not what you would think - Ill use the 44 in omni mod, and whistle across the front of it...  this way the wind noise is directed away from the diaphragm.. so it is not acting like a sail in a sea of halitosis....(come on.. thats funny).... but also its less harsh in the 2.5 range.. where if the whistle happens to point right at the hot spot of the pickup pattern, it really stands out too much.
 
So - the point of all of this is the omni pattern of the ksm 44 is much more useful than I originally ever would have thought.
2016/05/19 08:41:02
Starise
Great track David!
 
Yes I have to agree that the KSM44 and the cousin to it the KSM44a are great mics. My mic collection is not top end. Most of my other condenser mics are low end Chinese and a few nice dynamics I use. Because of its  smooth and unflattering response the KSM44 makes a decent violin mic and it ended up being my only one on this next example.
 
As fate would have it I ended up recording this next track on the KSM44 in my garage. After trying my staircase in various locations and a few other rooms in the house the garage was the clear winner mainly because it has insulation bats hanging from the ceiling which made excellent sound treatment, even better than the church auditorium. I put a rug down in there and positioned the KSM44 about 4ft above and 5ft away tracking in mono . I like the idea  of putting the mic in omni mode and playing into the side rather than the front. In my setting the omni didn't seem to make a huge difference. 
 
If you didn't have a ribbon mic I think the KSM44 is a decent violin mic because of the very neutral personality it has. Too close though and it's still way too hot on a violin. Worked about 3/4 ft away for me.That still picks up some scratch. If you wanted a more distant sound I would move back a little further.
 
I'm looking at the Cascade Fathead ribbon as an alternative or to augment what I have. If you have it to spend the Royers are probably best.DPA mics are also an option. They seem to be used more for live performances though and can pick up breathing noises. 
 
I'm still a newb on the instrument, but I think I'm making headway with the recording at least...the playing still leaves a little to be desired.
Here's the track I recorded in my garage-
https://soundcloud.com/st...starise-workers-lament
2016/05/26 14:27:22
Starise
Everything that I have read and comments made here point to a decent ribbon microphone for fiddle/violin. 
 
One of the frustrating things about searching for a ribbon online is that when they are tested, it's usually with an electric guitar, acoustic guitar, horns or sax....anything that has a little too much sizzle for a condenser mic.
Some reviewers mentions using a mic for "strings" which should cover this nicely. 
 
If you should decide on a ribbon mic a word of caution. They need a  pre amp that can handle the correct impedence or you will end up driving your exisitng pre amps up way high. You won't get the best result from a ribbon using stock pre amps.
 
As it turns out there are active ribbon mics designed to work much better with standard mic pre amps. I ended up ordering a Golden Age MKIII active ribbon mic. They also make one that's not active. If you want active circuitry you will need to make sure it says "active" in the description. These are figure 8 pattern. You'll get pickup from the rear of the mic to a lesser degree. I also ordered one of those mic reflection filters. The jury is still out on how effective this will be.
 
I'll try and post another example soon of the new mic and reflection filter.
2016/05/26 16:00:07
Jeff Evans
The figure 8 pattern will hear equally from both sides so when you are recording, it pays to be mindful of what the other half of the ribbon mic is hearing.  You can create a more dead area in one part of your studio and have that side pointing towards that. And the other side on the violin side and this could be in a slightly more reverberant part of the room as well.  (As long as the room sounds good though)
 
Better violins don't give you the squeaky upper harmonics.  So wanting that is not actually desirable.  On a very nice instrument this part of the spectrum is smoother and much more well balanced.   An SM57 on an expensive instrument can result in a good sound.
 
 
 
 
 
 
2016/05/31 11:11:48
Starise
I appreciate the advice Jeff. The figure 8 pattern was a concern for me and I attempted to dampen the mic from the rear. 
 
The new ribbon mic was an improvement. I used a baffle at the rear of the mic. Still not perfectly what I wanted, but closer to my goal. I made this recording in a small studio using the Golden Age MKIII active ribbon mic.
Some people seem to have liked it on my SC page already. I think I can do better in the next recording with a few more adjustments. The reverb is all added to a basically dead sound. Not really what I would prefer, but it seems to have worked better.
 https://soundcloud.com/starise/irish-medley-red-haired-boy-britches-full-of-stitches-egans-polka
 
As an aside, the Golden Age Active MKIII has some noise. The result of the active circuitry. When faded and adjusted it can be dealt with.  The mic rolls off the harshness much better than a neutral LDC.
 
Is it the best?....no. Go to a pro studio for that, but it works ok for what I'm trying to do :)
 
An accomplished player would sound really good with this setup using sound absorption and this ribbon.
 
 
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