• Techniques
  • Question for D tuning (full step down on all strings)
2016/04/17 13:36:53
mettelus
I got in this mood to play Motley Crue recently so tuned an Epiphone 335 down a full step. I play 10 guage strings, so this made them quite rubbery (will get fret slap if too carried away). Initially I thought of raising the bridge if I were going to leave it like this, but heavier guage might be a better choice, especially if going back to standard tuning.
 
Does anyone use this tuning, and if so what guage strings do you use?
2016/04/17 13:54:33
pentimentosound
I usually go up a gauge per half step down. Some necks might be more flexible, so experiment.
I haven't noticed problems with going one gauge larger, as far as the nut goes, but again....
LP scale like your Epi, should be OK with 11-50 (or 48?), with longer "Fender" scale necks I've liked 11-52 or 53
 
On acoustics, I take the higher bass path, if gigging.
D'Addario makes "down tuned" sets for electrics, by the way.
Michael
2016/04/17 13:58:23
Beepster
I used nothing but a full half step down exclusively on all my guits for years and many times, because I cared more about relative tuning with the band more than using a tuner, this would dip rather close to a full tone dowtune.
 
It was chunkier this way.
 
Because of this I moved up to .11 gauge. Now that I've tuned back up to 440 I still use .11.
 
So yes... if you intend to downtune like that definitely use a thicker gauge because .10's just don't cut it and .11's are much better in 440 anyway for many reasons (stay in tune better, last longer, sound better, builds hand strength, forces you to "dig" more for notes... the only down side is bending is harder but you get used to it).
 
.11's would probably behave almost like .09's a full tone down though. I'd personally learn the song downtuned then tune back up... unless singing is involved which of course could cause problems. However Vince Neil was really an ultra high pitch singer anyway like some of the other squealers from that era.
 
Still... I am a massive proponent of thicker strings. Do 'er. You'll be glad you did... once the pain goes away. lulz...
2016/04/17 14:00:56
Beepster
Oh... and you definitely need to reset your intonation, tremolo srping tension (on if your guit has one but since it's an Epi I'm assuming it's a fixed Tune-O-Matic) bridge) and likely the truss rod when making such a gauge switch.
 
You knew that already though.
 
Cheers, bud.
 
;-)
 
2016/04/17 14:19:50
mettelus
Thanks for the replies. One reason I chose the Epi is because it has no neck joint, so kinda hoping for less flex between tunings. I have never dedicated a guitar to even half a step down, but this one was there for quite a while. 11's would probably be simplest, but then I was thinking I have never used 12's. I am sort of curious to see how much the tension offsets the guage, since they are essentially acoustic guage (not sure if the 3rd string is wound on these though? but then again, not sure it matters with the reduced tension).
 
Have you guys ever tried 12's out? From a sustain-perspective they should have an edge on 11's.
 
Quick edit - Good grief, D'Addario makes a set of 14's (I know the nut would have issues with those, lol).
2016/04/17 14:33:16
pentimentosound
I used that 14 set on a Fender baritone Strat (27.7" scale), when I had it, and still do on my open E lap steel.
 
Clapton's From The Cradle, had a few cuts where he tuned to C# and the strings sound "large"! LOL
 
I have a Schecter Hellcat VI 30" six string bass (octave down) and have all wound 95-75-55-44-35-26's on that.
Michael
2016/04/17 15:06:07
Beepster
I think SRV used .13's
 
What style Epi are you using? Personally I think neck thru would be more of a liability than a bolt on and certain models of neck thru would handle the extra tension better than others based on neck thickness.
 
Example... an SG neck or ES335 neck is thinner and would get pulled in FAR more than an LP neck (which is far thicker).
 
For a bolt on just make sure to tighten the neck screws every so often (I do it every time I change the strings on my Yammie Pacifica Strat clone).
 
I used to actually do all sort of dive and vibrato tricks by just bending the necks on my SG's and other fixed bridge guits. I could get full semitone + downward dives by grabbing the headstock and reefing on it (made my other guit buddies cringe thinking I was about to snap the neck) and would do open note vibratos by clenching the body and shaking the guitar. SG's are great for this but it proves how delicate their neck can be.
 
My point? Not much... just be careful how far you push your axe because there is definitely a "give" point when it comes to necks and truss rods. It's very likely I've warped many a truss rod (and certainly caused stress fractures in the wood) with my semi calculated mayhem.
 
Looked and sounded cool live though. lol
2016/04/17 18:12:33
pentimentosound
I haven't had my Epi Riviera (a '68) for several decades, and haven't tried down tuning anything like one.
I did the 1/2 step neck bends on it, though!
If you Epi 335 is like my WildKat or AlleyKat, you'll probably be fine. I don't think I'd do it to my Swingster, though.
Just watch the action/neck relief, when you restring it.
Michael
2016/04/18 03:30:39
kennywtelejazz
It sounds as if you may need to experiment around a little bit with string sets too see what works for you .
Over here ,what I do is spend a lot of my noodle and practice time playing acoustically on an Arch Top w 12's or 13's .
 
What that means is I'm most comfortable playing on heaver gauge strings ..over 9's or 10's 
 
Most of my Solid Body guitars have 11's on them and for whatever odd reason it hasn't stopped me with my bending.
A recent song I did called My Good Tele Gone Bad is mostly bends on the dirty sections …guitar was strung w 11's 
 
The Tele I'm playing tonight has 12's on it tuned to standard and I like the way it feels and sounds …
 
Regarding your situation , a good bet would be to pick up a set of 11's first and give that set a try .
If you are gonna tune down to D I doubt you will have to change much if any thing …intonation or truss rod ….
12 's would probably feel just a little bit tighter tuned down to D ..not by much over 10's ….feel wise …
 
Since I have not looked at your Epi , I do not know if you would have to adjust the rod or intonation …
I used 12's tuned to standard on my Epi Limited Edition 61 SG w P 90's for about 6 months and it didn't need a truss rod adjustment …now that guitar has 11's  on it
 
A good rule of thumb is to take any changes you make on a guitar to guitar basis….
 
As far as the heavier gauge strings go …they will usually last a lot longer , also if your nut is not binding they will stay in tune a lot better ….
If you happen to be a guitarist that is looking for a Piano Bass type of sound on your lower strings or more punch 
Heaver gauge is the ticket …
 
A couple of things to think about also …
When you start using a beefier gauge set of strings ( even tuned down ) you can really dial in your tone .
 
 
I do all my own work so I pay close attention to setting my truss rod correctly , the intonation on my bridge and setting my guitars action to ring out ….
Once having done all that correctly you are now in a position to set your guitars pickups to exactly the best tone for your playing and style  by adjusting the pickup heights …..
 
What happens is the pick ups are magnetic and they play off the vibrations of the string and the guitar body's resonance ..
( even solid bodies regardless of the wood ) 
When you have a beefier string , you have more metal vibrating in the pickups magnetic field ….
Most people that don't know what they are doing think that if you raise the pick up that the guitar will sound better 
The guitar may sound louder and much muddier ..not better ….
To prove that to your self all you have to do is plug in your guitar to your DAW and do a real time read off your EQ 's.
 
When the pickup is too high it creates too much magnetic pull and it may inhibit the string from vibrating freely ..
In the case of a Fender Stratocaster , if you raise the pickups too high it will actually screw up your intonation 
I have a few guitars over here with EMG's ..Those guitars have to have the pickups up high due to the low magnetic pull EMG's exhibit . 
 
Anyway my point is if you decide to try a heavier set of strings even for down tuning , you may want to investigate on your own some of the things I have been saying here …
With the heavier strings you can lower your pick ups to the sweet spot and get a much better sound  more balanced more unique .
 
all the best,
 
Kenny
 
 
 
 
 
2016/04/18 09:17:45
Kamikaze
From looking at Bass strings, it seems that for a given guage, the tension can vary massively from manufacturer to Manufacturer and even n their own ranges. Maybe there are 10's that are a higher tension that would suit.
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