• Techniques
  • Question for D tuning (full step down on all strings) (p.2)
2016/04/18 10:53:46
mettelus
Thanks for the replies everyone; it is very much appreciated!
 
After some research, I found that D'Addario makes "BT" (Balanced Tension) sets, which are oddball guages with the intent of keeping the same tension in each string. Rather than get carried away I will start with a set of 11's and go from there. In all likelihood, I would probably just use this tuned a half-step down, so 11's should be fine.
 
An odd aside with this guitar. Even in standard tuning, the 10's are more like "putty" than on my Dean. One reason is the 24.75 vs 25.5 length, but the other is the nut on the Epiphone is so wide in comparison. Bends on the Epiphone hit one less string than on the Dean, so not only do I have more tension per string, but I am moving/touching another string in most cases. The thing I do not like about the Epiphone is that it is head-heavy... without a good strap, it wants to nose down all the time.
2016/04/18 13:02:15
Beepster
Ah... sorry. For some reason I overlooked the 335 in your OP (my brain glossed over it thinking it was referring to pitch/cents/concert tuning... derp).
 
My old SagaII Dot/335 clone had the same neck heavy issue (the headstock constantly dove downward in standing position with a strap). Great guits but that was certainly annoying at band practice. I used to use really crappy straps too and one night at practice in my buddy's basement I let go of the guit, the neck dove downward, the strap let go at the base of the neck and the guit faceplanted right onto the concrete floor (I'm 6'4" so it had a ways to travel down too). YIKES! Fortunately it only acquired a few scratches from the ordeal but that was indeed a moment of terror.
 
That guit was of course totally out of place for that band (high distortion 90's prog metal) and squealed like pig at high volumes though. Had to retire it to home use and get my old Ibanez rewired (so it would work properly... used to cut out all the time due to the ridiculous stock push/pull pot system).
 
I miss that axe dearly. I kept it for years after that but pawned it for rent at one point and FORGOT I HAD PAWNED IT!!! Frooking IDIOT!!!
 
Anyway... it had a very delicate/thin neck that was quite sensitive to tension (another axe I could divebomb just by bending the neck). I used .10s on it for years but near the end I jacked it up to .11's and the beast SUNG with those. They did bow the neck though and I was not comfortable enough to do truss rod adjustment so ended up with higher action and tuning problems.
 
If I ever get the money I'd love to buy one of the new Epi Dot/335 models... but maybe more prefarably the Epi "Lucille" release for the wacky pickup combo knob.
 
The only problem I see with the "Lucille" for me is the lack of F-Holes. I'm not sure if it will resonate how I want like my old long lost SagaII. I hope she found a good home. First electric I ever owned.
2016/04/18 18:00:22
tlw
Glued, through or bolted necks make no difference to how the neck relief reacts to string tension. The body won't move and if a bolted on neck joint moves because string rension changed there's something very seriously wrong with it. SG necks shift easily if string guages change, 1950s profile Gibson half baseball bats tend to stay put even after a substantial change.

I use a mix of strings - my SG gets .10 Gibson Britewires, which on that particular guitar bend very easily and sound solid.

One Tele has 10-46 Fender 150s. Fingerboard is the vintage 7.25" radius, but with a sensible action string bends are easy.

Another, which I use in open E for slide, has 11-whatever it is in the set Fender 150s. If I want to take it down to D I up the guage to 12s or 13s, usually with a wound third.

A third is currently in DADGAD using a mixed set that are the A, D, and G from a .11set, with wound third, and the dropped strings the E, B and E from a .12

My Strat has a set of .13s with wound third, standard tuning. Because I wanted a Dick Dale type solid surf sound from it for what I was doing a few years ago and I don't play it often enough to make me inclined to swap the strings and do a setup. Strats tend to sound a bit gutless with lighter strings anyway, which is perhaps why SRV favoured heavier strings.

Finally an early-model ES-135 (with P100s) tuned open E with a Daddario .12 set with wound third. It's a little sloppy, but there's a huge length of string because of the trapeze tailpiece and going heavier doesn't play as well. Strings are Daddario because with most makes the wrapped part of the string isn't long enough to reach from the trapeze to the pegs, Daddarios are and I can rely on being able to get them. On this guitar going from factory .09s in standard tuning to .12s in E made no difference at all to the neck relief. Like I said, it's half a laminated maple baseball bat.

I guess what I's saying is add a thou or two for each tone you drop the string. It takes experimentation to hit on the best set though, and everyone is different. Lots of people use .09 or lighter sets which I find too elastic and lacking in body, though Tony Iommi uses ridiculously light strings because of his damaged fingers and his work with Sabbath sounds the opposite of weak. If possible find guages you can buy as a complete ready made set - can be much cheaper than buying individual strings.
2016/04/19 16:26:26
kennywtelejazz
Yes, I have to agree with the Idea that lighter gauge strings can sound very powerful and be just the ticket for some guitar players .
 
I used to play using 9's and 10's ,  I certainly like the way they sound and record …
 
Having said that , I'm still one of these people that happens to believe that tone is more a product of a persons playing style and touch . Not the gear they use 
 
all the best,
 
Kenny
2016/04/19 17:03:29
tlw
kennywtelejazz
Having said that , I'm still one of these people that happens to believe that tone is more a product of a persons playing style and touch . Not the gear they use 


Absolutely. Couldn't agree more.
2016/04/20 15:00:42
Danny Danzi
I would say, if you are going to do this, do it right. If you're just going to mess around, don't go crazy. But if you want to really do it, dedicate a guitar strictly to this down tuning and you won't regret it.
 
I'm permanently tuned to a C below standard E as that is how I play and the only tuning I know. There are quite a few things to watch for me, but similar rules apply even when going down a whole step.
 
I actually use 9-42 on my guitars, but it works because the guitar is literally set up for that tuning in all aspects. The action, the truss rod, the intonation, the trem bar...and even the saddles are slightly modified, as I put little washers under them to raise or lower individual height along with custom saddles that are just 1/s and 2's. 3's are too high.
 
That said, the heavier gauge strings will always be a good choice. But just remember there are pros and cons to all of this. One of the biggest things to watch for other than string buzz, is dual tonality. What this means is, you can literally pick up two tones on a note due to the pickup magnet grabbing the string two times because of the lack of tension as well as being too close to the pup. So you will need to adjust your pup height in most cases.
 
The good thing about lighter gauge strings is, you won't have to deal with this because the string thickness isn't there. The con here, the strings are so loose, you can bend nearly an octave. LOL! 10's or 11's are good choices in my opinion, but you may be better off with one of those custom sets that give you thicker bottoms and normal tops for easier lead playing IF you play lead at all.
 
The good thing is, because you will be tuned a whole step down, the extra string thickness won't be much of a change for you over being tuned 440 using lighter gauge strings. Being tuned lower will compensate a bit. But the thicker strings will definitely make the tone thicker too. But that said, you can use just about any string gauge once you set the guitar up for that gauge. No one believes I use 9's on a C tuned guitar until they try it.
 
Also, a little string buzz is good. There is a difference between a little buzz adding to the crunch of the tone vs. fretting out buzz. That, you do not want. But mine buzz ever so slightly, but I can only hear it when the guitar is not plugged in. You know, if I noodle around with it and I'm not in an amp or pre-amp, there's a slight buzz. But it's a good buzz that actually adds to the sound.
 
What I'd suggest is this....
 
Choose the strings you feel the most comfortable with
 
Set action a little high after you are all tuned up and staying in tune
 
Put some heat on the truss rod....meaning, tighten it so that the action appears to come down lower. From here, experiment with lowering action if need be vs. tightening/loosening the truss. You need to find a happy medium here and also remember that all the standard truss adjustment stuff we are taught for 440 standard tuning will no longer matter for you. The truss rod is adjusted for feel now...and you may have to put a considerable amount of heat/tightness on it to even things out.
 
I always make my action a little higher, tighten the truss until I buzz a little, and see how I like it. Normally, I will want the action a little lower. So I'll drop the bridge a bit and then loosen the truss a little until I have that good combination of tight feel from the truss, and good action that just feels right. You'll know when you have it dialed in. Good luck!
 
-Danny
2016/04/25 13:06:13
smallstonefan
I had an Epi Dot before I got my Gibson 335. In both cases - in standard tuning - I found 10.5 to be the perfect size (D'Addario makes a 10.5 set). This was recommended by a buddy of mine that owned the store I bought the 335 from. 
 
Try it if you get a chance - they really just seem to "work" on that style guitar.
2016/04/25 14:57:44
Jim Roseberry
mettelus
I got in this mood to play Motley Crue recently so tuned an Epiphone 335 down a full step. I play 10 guage strings, so this made them quite rubbery (will get fret slap if too carried away). Initially I thought of raising the bridge if I were going to leave it like this, but heavier guage might be a better choice, especially if going back to standard tuning.
 
Does anyone use this tuning, and if so what guage strings do you use?



IMO, If you're going a full step down... the guitar needs to be specifically setup for that purpose.
 
I wouldn't tune the guitar up/down with the same setup/strings.
It's too much of a change...
With a Trem... it would be a major PITA going back and forth (adjusting for the change in string vs spring tension).
 
2016/04/25 16:29:07
Zargg
Hi. This will probably be of no help at all, but.. I played a friends Musicman (do not remember the model) that was dropped down to C, and he was using .13 - 56 D'Addario strings (had bolted his tremolo (stuck) professionally). It was a pleasure to play with. It just felt juicy
All the best.
2016/04/28 16:20:33
MakerDP
Worked for me for years:
11's for whole step D tuning
10's for half step Eb tuning
 
Now I am back to standard tuning exclusively and I use 9's or 10's depending on the guitar.
 
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account