ORIGINAL: lazarous

Barthowk:

Last night I was talking to my partner about your dilemna, and it got me to thinking... what recording equipment do you currently own? If you're already set up with a fairly nice set of gear, just building the space shouldn't be all that bad... we built our space (admittedly, in an existing building) for about $10-15k, after sitting down and doing the estimates last night. We already owned a nice mic kit, most of the cabling, some sound treatment materials, the board and our recording unit, plus a half dozen computers that could handle a varying amount of computing. If you're in that situation, it really shouldn't be that bad.

I still think you should consider the parking area as a "main tracking area" if you're going the 2-story garage route. Heck, here's a Menards building that would probably make a fantastic studio/garage, at least as a starting point:

http://www.menards.com/featuredProjects.do?sortBy=title&page=0&type=Specialty&totalPages=1&dispatch=showOneGarage&code=1954605

If you went this route and followed the instructions on this page for reducing sound transmission:

http://www.controlnoise.com/common_wall_noise.html

You'd probably have a great start, and still have $5k or more to outfit other things about your studio.

Just throwing it out there... lots of options for you to look into. I hope you find a way to make it happen, man! I spent the last three nights in the basement recording two different projects, and it was so much fun.

Corey

Last night I was talking to my partner about your dilemna, and it got me to thinking... what recording equipment do you currently own? If you're already set up with a fairly nice set of gear, just building the space shouldn't be all that bad... we built our space (admittedly, in an existing building) for about $10-15k, after sitting down and doing the estimates last night. We already owned a nice mic kit, most of the cabling, some sound treatment materials, the board and our recording unit, plus a half dozen computers that could handle a varying amount of computing. If you're in that situation, it really shouldn't be that bad.

Well, my studio equipment isn't out of this world or anything. Of course, I'm always upgrading. I’ve heard that for every dollar you spend on equipment, you should spend a dollar on room treatment. I figure that getting a great sounding room will be essential to really getting a great overall “sound.”

A basic rundown of my equipment is:
Lexicon Omega interface, Groove Tubes The Brick preamp, Studio Projects C1 mic, Shure SM57 mic, Alesis M1 Active MK2 monitors, MesaBoogie 112, Les Paul Studio, Fender American Precision Bass, Sansamp, line 6 tone core delay pedal, mostly monster cables, and a Dell XPS 400 (dual core processor). Like I said, nothing that great.

However, I’ll soon be getting a nice interface (e.g., lynx or RME) and a nice vocal mic (e.g., AKG C 414). Everything is on the upgrade right now…

Gee what am I? Mr. Gloom & Doom? Oh well. The Menard bldg that Corey mentions above looks good. Looks good. But pre-fab kits are just that...kits for YOU to build out. And many times their specs and contents are not up to snuff. In fact here's what they themselves say regarding this unit: *You may buy all the materials or any part at low cash and carry prices. Because of the wide variables in codes, Menards cannot guarantee the material list will meet your code requirements. These are suggested designs and material lists only. Some items may vary from those pictured. We do not guarantee the completeness or prices of these garages. Labor, concrete floor/foundation, steel beams, paint, electrical, heating, plumbing and delivery not included. Please inquire at the building materials desk. Some special order truss sizes must be jobsite delivered. Delivery is extra* In short, you pay roughly $15,000 for the kit and then you still need elec. plumbing, concrete etc....and all LABOR (your single biggest cost). And this kit will be for what is know in the trade as "builders grade" materials. Which might sound good but which actually means lowest grade that will pass code. And this kit will be delivered (extra cost) all at one time. But you don't need the materials all at one time so you'll have to protect them from theft, weather, etc... until they roll up on the build schedule. The space alone to store the materials could well be problematic. Please don't get me wrong, Corey's idea might be just what you're looking for. But if I recall you are not a "handy man", right? And any contractor/crew you hire to "assemble" your kit will almost certainly want to choose their own materials. There is a pretty big difference in rehabing (as Corey and I have both done recently) an existing building and building one from scratch.

Healthy dose of reality recieved. Thanks.

ORIGINAL: yorolpal
Gee what am I? Mr. Gloom & Doom? Oh well.

Yes you are, ya big meanie!

I'd say you're very realistic.

The Menard bldg that Corey mentions above looks good. Looks good. But pre-fab kits are just that...kits for YOU to build out. And many times their specs and contents are not up to snuff. In fact here's what they themselves say regarding this unit: *You may buy all the materials or any part at low cash and carry prices. Because of the wide variables in codes, Menards cannot guarantee the material list will meet your code requirements. These are suggested designs and material lists only. Some items may vary from those pictured. We do not guarantee the completeness or prices of these garages. Labor, concrete floor/foundation, steel beams, paint, electrical, heating, plumbing and delivery not included. Please inquire at the building materials desk. Some special order truss sizes must be jobsite delivered. Delivery is extra* In short, you pay roughly $15,000 for the kit and then you still need elec. plumbing, concrete etc....and all LABOR (your single biggest cost). And this kit will be for what is know in the trade as "builders grade" materials. Which might sound good but which actually means lowest grade that will pass code. And this kit will be delivered (extra cost) all at one time. But you don't need the materials all at one time so you'll have to protect them from theft, weather, etc... until they roll up on the build schedule. The space alone to store the materials could well be problematic. Please don't get me wrong, Corey's idea might be just what you're looking for. But if I recall you are not a "handy man", right? And any contractor/crew you hire to "assemble" your kit will almost certainly want to choose their own materials. There is a pretty big difference in rehabing (as Corey and I have both done recently) an existing building and building one from scratch.

I agree with everything you've said. Can't argue with anything. I still think it might be worth having a similar garage built, even if it just has a large open are upstairs. Barthowk could work on turning it into his studio over time.

I've worked with the Menards kit buildings before. Your assessment is correct, Yorolpal... some of the 2x4's are freaking bananas, but overall it's a decent starting point.

Corey

ORIGINAL: papa2004

ORIGINAL: cAPSLOCK

...Sometimes I think folks get so wrapped up in the ideals they forget that the whole idea we are talking about is just a place to record music...

And sometimes, folks are now able to fulfill a lifelong "dream". They want, and can afford, to do so starting from scratch so that, in bringing the dream to fruition, they can feel reasonably confident that they won't have any regrets about their efforts in the future.

I respect that. In fact I have done it. I built a 1200 square foot studio with two isos, a large high ceiling main room, a control room, bathroom, and small lounge. From the ground up. Built right, with doubled offset stud walls everywhere, same with the ceiling. One iso is locked, and the rooms are trapezoidal and asymmetrical One iso is live warm and has high ceilings, the other is dead-ish. They each have 10 mic lines and 2 returns along with the 16 lines and 4 returns in the main room. Mogami Neglex Quad throughout, ADC patchbays, Neve, API, Focusrite, Aphex, and Amek preamps... neumann, shure, crown, cad, at, ev, and so on. We have a piano, a hammond organ, a DW drumset, guitars, bass.. etc etc etc.

It's not that I think attention to detail doesn't matter, and I think it does. And I think barthowk knows what he wants.

In my own life I have let "the perfect be the enemy of the good" enough times to make me remember that in the end it's about making good sounding music. I spose I was preaching to myself more than anyone else, which is about all I do out here on the net. ;) It really is time for me to unplug this damn thing.

bye bye! -plink-

A french roof on a garage within a two roomdesign and using digital drums (you can allways sample the kit of a client) will take care of acoustics, too much sound (wich would bother neighbours) and crosstalk issues. Just use a second loose floor in the recordingarea (make sure it doesn't touch walls ( 1-2 cm's room (wich can be hidden with hollow plints) Two different double glased windows and two doors will dampen the sound coming from the recording area around 40-60 db. This should be enough. If you get a hardrockdude over you can create a closed box (Iron Maiden uses such boxes on their worldtours recording their new songs in their hotelrooms) wich can hold 3 microphones per cabinet. This will dampen any noise from a guitarbox.

Acoustic tuning can be done with Auralex kits or alike. Extra costs over the usual garage will be:

- extra electricity (three/four groups for studio use alone, and another (or two) for the garage and extra solid grounding
- two walls between studio and life area
- two doors and two windows (with different type of glass and in a little angle (in studio a little tilted)
- a second loose floor in the life room
- two sets (or more) of auralex (or alike) packages for acoustic tuning.
- digital drumkit
- box for loud guitaramps

Muziekschuur

Just came across these program that might be helpful in designing your studio in regard to monitor placement and dimensions:

http://www.rhintek.com/cara/cara21desc.php

http://www.rpginc.com/products/roomsizer/index.htm
http://www.rpginc.com/products/roomoptimizer/index.htm

ORIGINAL: cAPSLOCK

I respect that. In fact I have done it. I built a 1200 square foot studio with two isos, a large high ceiling main room, a control room, bathroom, and small lounge. From the ground up. Built right, with doubled offset stud walls everywhere, same with the ceiling. One iso is locked, and the rooms are trapezoidal and asymmetrical One iso is live warm and has high ceilings, the other is dead-ish. They each have 10 mic lines and 2 returns along with the 16 lines and 4 returns in the main room. Mogami Neglex Quad throughout, ADC patchbays, Neve, API, Focusrite, Aphex, and Amek preamps... neumann, shure, crown, cad, at, ev, and so on. We have a piano, a hammond organ, a DW drumset, guitars, bass.. etc etc etc.

All quality tools to help produce a quality result. (and I've heard your high quality results)

ORIGINAL: cAPSLOCK

In my own life I have let "the perfect be the enemy of the good" enough times to make me remember that in the end it's about making good sounding music.

THAT... my friend... is profound. I may even frame this and hang it in my studio!

ORIGINAL: cAPSLOCK

I spose I was preaching to myself more than anyone else, which is about all I do out here on the net. ;) It really is time for me to unplug this damn thing.

NOT TRUE! I've told you this before cAPS... I read everything you post and benefit from it. Thank you.

ORIGINAL: cAPSLOCK

bye bye! -plink-

I know better... you'll be back!

At least I hope so...

... -plink-

ORIGINAL: barthowk
We're thinking that building a garage with a studio above will raise resale value because the studio can be listed as "mother-in-law quarters,"

Yes especially if the potential buyer has a mother in law with a big mouth. The soundproofing will put a smile on their faces as they're signing the purchase papers.

Just remember that the upper floor will be more exposed to neighborhood noise then the ground floor will be as it is behind fence lines and other ground clutter. The walls must be designed well.

Any news yet as to any final plans?

We don't close until July 7, and I'm not going to actually start official plans until we've settled a little (a month or so) (both for sanity's sake and to see where we are at financially). The purpose of me starting this conversation was to get opinions and ideas. When things get more settled, I'll let everyone know!

Thanks for the interest.

Just remember that the upper floor will be more exposed to neighborhood noise then the ground floor will be as it is behind fence lines and other ground clutter. The walls must be designed well.

Don't forget the ceiling and roof structures...