• Hardware
  • All time classic question: Audio interface for less dropouts and low latency (p.3)
2017/06/02 15:04:55
Cactus Music
AT that price point your limited to interfaces that will all more or less perform about the same. Without proper bench mark testing there's no way at this point to reliably state which one has the best driver. 
 
Thanks for the info about the Motu. I figured by the time I have the cash on hand they would sort it out based on past history of the company. Always good to let products mature.. The Behringer X 12 was also on my list but I think I'd rather trust a company like Motu with my live sound. And bonus the ultra lite is a real audio interface too. 
2017/06/02 15:08:14
scook
occide
Latency: I have problems with certain plugins while playing live on my keyboard.

I can only assume this is not a problem with Plug-in Delay Compensation because you have ignored others request for more information about the "certain plugins" used. If this is related to plug-in delay compensation NO AMOUNT OF HARDWARE will address the situation. The latency is a fixed amount of time needed for the plug-in(s) to work correctly.
 
One way to determine if the problem is PDC related without providing details about the plug-ins involved is bypass all plug-ins in the project using the FX button in the Mix module or using the keyboard shortcut "E." If the latency goes away, the problem is PDC. Note: muting tracks and turning off plug-ins does not affect PDC. It is possible to selectively bypass FX bins by right-clicking the in the bin and selecting the option. The functional equivalent of bypassing an FX bin for a synth is disconnecting it. The disconnect button is not show when the synth rack is docked with the browser. In that case, select the synth in the synth rack and use the synth settings menu at the top of the synth rack. For more info see http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=Browser.11.html
 
On the other hand, if the latency problem is driver related, the CPU, interface and driver efficiency do matter. In this case, it would be helpful to know a little about the ASIO buffer setting used in SONAR.
 
occide
Dropouts: I'm getting issues when one (1) single plugin goes above 50% CPU load, spiking is what they say.

Dropouts are buffering problems and there are a variety of tweaks that may help. Here are a couple of ideas from the troubleshooting section of the help file http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=Troubleshooting.22.html. Adjusting the DropoutMsec value in AUD.ini may help too. Tweaking ExtraPluginBufs may be a good idea. Both are documented here http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=INI_Files.6.html#1134652. The AUD.Ini may be updated in Preferences > Audio > Configuration File. To see "Configuration File" make sure the Advanced radio button is selected at the bottom of the Preferences dialog.
 
2017/06/02 15:45:05
mettelus
dwardzala

First are you using plug-ins with look ahead capability or other processing that is not meant for tracking purposes/low latency situations?
 


^^^^ This, and synths which require high CPU usage will preclude low buffer settings. From the OP it seems there is a combination of both in play, so I would suggest analyzing that in more detail. A fast computer and great interface can only mitigate these issues so far; i.e., the preconceived solution in the thread title may not actually be it.
2017/06/02 16:36:39
occide
glennstanton
not me :-) i only provided my insight on Delta cards...

Sorry man, didn't mean you personal, but "you" in plural.
 
You (personally) just happened to provide the link I wanted to quote. 
2017/06/02 16:50:53
occide
scook
I can only assume this is not a problem with Plug-in Delay Compensation because you have ignored others request for more information about the "certain plugins" used...

Again, my apologies. I didn't ignore that on purpose, I was just pretty busy these days and tried to get the thread back to topic while I was basically at work.
 
I usually hit the PDC button when I play live and notice the audio lags behind my keyboard. I toggle it back when I let the box play. Yes, I've noticed the difference in latency for sure. 
 
Some of the plugins I'm using atm I mentioned before, Iris 2, Falcon, Neutron, then some of the BT plugins, some third party plugins and instruments (Air Complete Collection, TAL Reverb, MiniFilter V, Fracture, Diffuse, ReverberateCM among others).
 
Thanks for your detailed explanation, I'm definitely gonna check out the links and the info you gave. Been searching around for that most of the day already. In general I care more about the dropouts than the latency, cause I'm not much of a live player.
 
 
2017/06/02 16:52:52
occide
mettelus
^^^^ This, and synths which require high CPU usage will preclude low buffer settings. From the OP it seems there is a combination of both in play, so I would suggest analyzing that in more detail. A fast computer and great interface can only mitigate these issues so far; i.e., the preconceived solution in the thread title may not actually be it.



That means I don't have to spend money? Not sure if I'm ok with that. But I'll adapt. :)
2017/06/02 17:01:16
scook
occide
 I care more about the dropouts than the latency, cause I'm not much of a live player.

This is where you could be working at cross purposes. Part of the dropout problem may be running ASIO buffers too low. Increasing the ASIO buffers to prevent dropouts will increase the latency experienced while playing your keyboard. This is when bounce and freeze start to be part of the workflow. If only as a temporary solution while recording so that you can get past that part of the process.
2017/06/02 17:25:42
steveo42
Cactus Music
AT that price point your limited to interfaces that will all more or less perform about the same. Without proper bench mark testing there's no way at this point to reliably state which one has the best driver. 
 
Thanks for the info about the Motu. I figured by the time I have the cash on hand they would sort it out based on past history of the company. Always good to let products mature.. The Behringer X 12 was also on my list but I think I'd rather trust a company like Motu with my live sound. And bonus the ultra lite is a real audio interface too. 




I'll tell ya, if someone had recommended MOTU for a Windows box say 3+ years ago I never would have considered it as they have a reputation for being Apple support first and Windows a distant second. Times change and I picked this unit up based on Jim R reccomendations and it's just been rock solid. Yes, some drivers were better than others but they worked out the bugs and right now, at least for me under Windows 10 it just sits there and runs. The rep hangs out in the GS forums and support does listen to user requests and complaints. For example one driver wouldn't allow Protools and Studio One to change the sample rate from within the program. I and others complained and we had a beta that fixed the bug within a few days. The release version was out shortly afterwards. 
 
I'm not sure if MOTU uses off the shelf THESYSCON type drivers, I'm pretty sure they don't. I think they have another group within MOTU that writes the drivers, kind of like RME does. Maybe Jim R can comment. Whatever MOTU is doing, it works because their drivers are highly optimized and work well. Most importantly when bugs creep up, they get fixed instead of ignored. At least that's been my experience. The same goes for RME and LynX BTW. They take driver development and support seriously.
 
Whatever you buy I do suggest you make sure it works well with Ryzen before you buy or at least purchase from a place that has a liberal return policy. Ryzen is new and just because something works well with Intel doesn't mean the same results can be achieved with the Ryzen chip. 
2017/06/02 18:15:54
tlw
occide
So what about the cheaper USB interfaces, like from RME. Will they improve anything regarding latency or dropouts over my old M-Audio?
Seems like nothing from RME is exactly cheap.
 


An RME USB interface is very likely to give latency results that in the real world are indistinuishable from a PCI card. Unless you can tell the difference between 3 and 4 milliseconds or are recording a very high audio track count at the same time while monitoring using the DAW's input echo function. And the incresed latency that result from that is down to the computer's ability to handle the data, not the interface or its driver.

RME ASIO/Core Audio drivers are amongst the best in the business. No, RME are not cheap, in the same way SSL or UAD aren't cheap. If you want inexpensive try a basic Focusrite or, if all you need is stereo audio output not input, try using on-board audio chip on the motherboard using Sonar's WASAPI driver settings. That may do what you need.

You may even find that not using plugins that generate a lot of additional latency until the tracking has been done and you're at the mixing stage may solve your latency problem and cost you nothing. Some plugins add a lot of latency because they need time to do their stuff and plugin makers often don't tell you how much. One that does is Waves, and while some of their plugs add zero latency at some samplig rates other plugins might add as much as three seconds.

Managing that kind of thing is part of running a DAW. The only way to avoid having to deal with the issue is to use hardware processors and synths, not software, at least until everything is tracked and latency no longer a problem anyway.

All this, of course, may or may not apply to a Ryzen system. They're too new for there to be much data about, though Jim R's opinion is worth paying attention to, he does this stuff for a living and has for quite a time.
2017/06/02 20:24:56
Sanderxpander
I know this is going to sound unhelpful, but it really isn't. Occide, you have seemingly invested plenty in your computer with lots of RAM and a large SSD, you claim top notch performance, you "don't like limitations when you want to be creative", yet you want to spend the absolute minimum on an audio interface?
 
I don't see a happy solution here. You don't have to go with RME necessarily (though you will likely get great results), but it would definitely help you to not shop in the budget market if you want to improve the performance of your system.
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