I only maybe misunderstood part of it. I would think to get the maximum effect from the change you would want it to be compact in the PC JMOP. Like I said, my brain glazed over about 2/3 of the way into this. That started when it became apparent we were going in circles.
 
It might boil down to how much integration is needed. If you had this feature would you still use the vst box? Would you put a few vst's into the PC and then use the PC as yet another vst holder? Would you go post or pre? If you drag a vst into an effects chain in the PC don't you have  similar experience? 
 
This now seems more about the vst's and not the PC. I would like to see the PC more functional, maybe see the idea expanded to more PC modules that would minimize the need for vst. Cake has made allowances for vst in the PC. The whole idea behind the PC as I see it is to have a bin of well made plugs with easy access. The plugs for PC are well optimized. I have more capability than I really need now in terms of functionality and connectivity, but that's me and might not apply to you.
 
Maybe what some want is really more of a glorified vst rack. As with many of these things we have plenty of choices.In my case, I probably have too many choices. 
 
Good luck with it!
 
 

Once again: 
 

• I find the FX Racks to be too narrow and fiddly and they drastically truncate plugin names, especially when using narrow strips
• so I use the ProChannel as my sole track processing chain - it's bigger and wider and more conducive to working with large, complex effect chains, and I also like the hands-on convenience of the Quadcurve and use a couple of other of the PC modules
• Currently the only way to use a normal VST effect in the PC is by adding it to an FX Chain module. These are way too big for just one VST, because they also have custom controls on them. They're made for an explicit purpose - building custom effect chaining modules with controls to manipulate them as a single unit. They're essentially a "black box" for building custom effects. For hosting one VST, they're overkill and a waste of space.
• Therefore a highly pared down version of the FX Chain module, which houses just one VST and takes up no more room than is necessary, would be very welcome.

That's all there is to it, for future reference. If you use the PC as your sole processing path and you insert your own VST's in it (as many do), it's an improvement. That's it. 

sharke

Starise
James I was referencing comments by Chazed. On how "archaic" he seems to think Sonar is. The blanket statements lead nowhere. Yes Cakewalk has been around for 30 years and that's a good thing. He apparently thinks almost everything else is better...or he's just having a bad day.Whatever the case, universal statements like that mean nothing to me, especially when no real details are given.
 
To say the PC is dead is also in fact probably a lie. I hate to be that blatant, but seriously Cake can add two modules next week or change it up in some way at any time. Many people use this thing that he says is dead, to even make that statement overlooks just about everything I know about Cakewalk. 
 
Maybe they will add a feature to drag a vst into the PC. I think it's a good idea overall. To do that you would need to write a program that translates to PC on the fly and adjusts the graphics. Probably no small feat. OTOH if you can do that, no one will need to invest in PC modules any more because they can simply load anything they want into it. Then you might run into optimization issues and warranty issues etc etc. It's more work to load tools that are already there as basic working plugs in the PC. 
 
So I'm not saying it's impossible or that it isn't at some point feasible. I'm saying that solving one issue might bring up a host of other issues. It gets complicated really fast. 
 
I don't have a dog in this fight since I'm happy with the current setup. Improvements can always be made. It just seems we are working this from the wrong end in how it's going down. 

You misunderstand what I meant about dragging a VST into the ProChannel. I didn't suggest a means of having the VST automatically morph its controls into a PC module format. I just said it would be nice to be able to drag a VST into the ProChannel and have it sit on its own without needing a full FX Chain module. So basically, we need a module which houses one single VST and takes up no more room than that. I have no doubt the Bakers could implement this very easily. 

OK that clears a few things up ....I get it to a degree
 
I would like to see Cakewalk morph a few concepts they already have in play and come up with a New Hybrid approach to The Pro Chanel and Consul View ...
As an augmentation to what already exists ....not necessarily a replacement 
 
I'm on 15 inch lap tops by choice. Screen real estate is really very important to me right now .
 
FWIW, I do love the way the Consul and Pro Chanel look after I've done all my hard work and I'm just kicking back listening to how the tune is progressing ...
 
Folks please bare with me on this ....I'm just thinking out loud , Yet I have given this a lot of thought in my spare time ...
 
What would happen if Cakewalk took the existing Matrix View and revamped it to become a revamped consul / pro channel mixing / environment where a person can choose the levels of what they want to be able to edit on the fly ?
 
Instead of using loops , samples and one shots as per the current Matrix View a person could  pre determine what pro channel or 3rd party  VST content they want do display within each of the pre determined cells within a Matrix.  Then they could set up a custom view and style environment specifically  for their individualized workflows using  Pro Channel style effects  and or 3rd party VST's ...
 
ex , In SONAR's current Matrix View you can set up a cell to play a loop , a one shot , or any number of other starting and stopping points within a cell using midi and or audio .
 
In a Hybrid Mixing  Pro Channel /VST effects Matrix View Cell you can set any layer of chosen effects you want to bring to the forefront ...
ex ,  Lets say you already have a set Pro channel setting you are happy with yet you want to be able to adjust on the fly your effects within the effects bin , you can recall the effects bin setting within the Matrix  Cell ..
Or for that matter you can even have the whole cell populated  yet have it set up where you can recall the one effect you would like to experiment with and have that one only show when you call up the chosen cell
 
Possible Matrix cell attributes that can be recalled and set can range from Pro Channel only , Pro Channel w effects bin , effects bin only , wrapped  in Pro Channel 3rd party VST , unwrapped individual VST effect ...
These recall-able attributes  can be set by right clicking on the cell ....
 
Taking it a step further A Hybrid Mixing style Matrix View can also contain the typical things such as the vol control , pan control, and sends , but not on the scale of what the current consul view shows .
They can be a simple as what SONAR has within the consul View as per the sends sliders .These controls can also be hidden if not needed or desired ....
 
Now some of may think I don't know what I'm talking about ...trust me I do Know what the eff I'm talking about
 
1, In the Traditional Consul View you can only do one thing at a time .
2, In the current Tradition SONAR Matrix View you can do multiple things at a time IN REAL TIME ..
3, In the Hybrid Mixing  Pro Channel / VST effects Matrix View Cell View I'm proposing here with you all right now
it is only natural that you would be able to do multiple things at a time IN REAL TIME ON THE FLY ...
Just click a cell then the cell becomes enlarged and you can edit the chosen effects or chosen synth 
 
Thank you for listening ,
 
Kenny
 
 

SO, if I'm tracking this correctly, Sharke wants VST's without the "gift wrap" of the effects chain. Craig thinks Sonar is wonderful and meets all requirements of the broader user base, while Kenny wants the Millennium Falcon.
 
Is that about it?

Oh dear...
 
Here we go:
 
@Starise
 
I'm sorry but you just misunderstand almost everything in this thread. Yet jumped in and make the most of your freedom to type. Fine by me, but don't you think you need at least understand what's the thread is all about? That said, all of this makes your opinion less relevant than mine? Absolute not, but I think for us to discuss, we need to understand each other. Don't you agree?
Just one example: I was comparing "console emulation workflow" between Sonar and Reason, you assumed it was a complete comparison between DAW's . Don't you agree you missed the point by a mile?
 
The ProChannel Is Dead!
 
And here's why I think (I said I think) so:

• When was the last time you saw a new ProChannel Module? Of course Cakewalk could make all the PC's we ever need, but I think is a dead end (I said I think).
• From a business point (no expertise here), I think makes more sense to Cakewalk just let it go and sell all PC's as a VST's. Aren't they emulations of hardware? There's a market for it and Cakewalk should make the most of it. This way some extra money could help make Sonar a better DAW than it already is. And of course all people who already own those PC's will get the VST versions for free. I don't know if the PC's are faithful to the source of emulation. All I know is that they sound great, which is enough for me.
• They're already doing it! Can't you people see the trend? First L-Phase Plugins, then A. Limiter. Can't be just me thinking out loud. That said, I'm really excited to see what's next.

Of course all this is pure speculation from me. Cakewalk could just do nothing and move on. Fine by me too. For now.
 
I said archaic thinking, and form me archaic thinking is sticking with a concept that's not better than what's out there and yet implementing it without even considering the better approach.
 
And really: how can you find something laughable, if you didn't understand the joke?  LOL.
 
@Craig
 
I can't say I knew everything you said, but I'm not surprised, except for the EDM info. I was looking at the wrong lists of top hits.
 
Some of those points you make that are Sonar highlights can be done in other DAW's, but don't get me wrong, Sonar has a nice set of unique features (you forgot Plugin Upsampling, which I'm glad Sonar has). And I think Sonar could smash the competition not by copying other DAW's features, but by copying and making it better than them. But I understand that there's a lot more to it than "wishing things", as you already explained.
 
Yet I'll still chime in every time I feel I have to. Does not matter if is a feature request, a bug or whatever. Don't you think all of this discussion is a free consulting session for Cakewalk? As long as people are not punching each other in the face, all discussion is relevant, no matter the subject.
 
@Sharke
 
I'm sorry I hijacked your thread. I'll make sure this does not happen again.
 
And, believe or not, I don't even agree with you about the PC. Will I be happy if Cakewalk does what you want? Of course! But I still think that making PC's available as VST's is a better future for Cakewalk.

Just wow.......

ChazEd
 
The ProChannel Is Dead!
 
And here's why I think (I said I think) so:

• When was the last time you saw a new ProChannel Module? Of course Cakewalk could make all the PC's we ever need, but I think is a dead end (I said I think).
• From a business point (no expertise here), I think makes more sense to Cakewalk just let it go and sell all PC's as a VST's. Aren't they emulations of hardware? There's a market for it and Cakewalk should make the most of it. This way some extra money could help make Sonar a better DAW than it already is. And of course all people who already own those PC's will get the VST versions for free. I don't know if the PC's are faithful to the source of emulation. All I know is that they sound great, which is enough for me.
• They're already doing it! Can't you people see the trend? First L-Phase Plugins, then A. Limiter. Can't be just me thinking out loud. That said, I'm really excited to see what's next.

Of course all this is pure speculation from me. Cakewalk could just do nothing and move on. Fine by me too. For now.
 

 
I don't feel the PC is dead at all, because I still thinks it's has great integration into the console, which makes it great for me on a Hd Laptop, with a concise layout. From a mixing stand points covers everything very well. I have two very good character EQ's from Boz and a I think the Quad EQ is perfect for cleaner cuts and precision work (that would take the Pro Q to really better for that work), and a variety of good compressors in the +10, CA2A, PC 76, PC4K that cover all my compressor basses, an a very good limiter in the Concrete. There are a range of 3 saturation options and a console emulation. All this makes for a great mixing set up. Anything extar here is just icing on a cake. Although there are more available in the Softube pack (Which I don't have for iLok reasons, but I hear the focusing EQ is great and the FET Comp makes a comparable exchange for the PC76).
 
I like the Re-Matrix and BreVerb options, I use the former mainly. (And TSAR reverb is well rated)
 
It's true though I think the Hoser was the last PC made, about 18 months ago (If I recall correctly. So things have gone quiet and although the mix range is quite well covered, it's the more creative tools that are lacking, The VKFX are a nice additions, but these so far have been the only creative range. The problems with more creative stuff is it often need a bigger GUI, but companies like Plug&Mix would fit their range perfectly, some have been out a while now, but they are still adding to it (5 new one recently) They have about 50 all in the same format, so converting them would become pretty much batch work after the first  have been done. This would add value to the older ones in their range. But I do think the onus is on Cakewalk to entice companies to do this.http://www.plugandmix.com/products/software
 
My latest JRR email showed these
 



Which would fit well as well (though they are not my sort of thing), so its not just Plug&Mix, that don't require a large GUI to use.
 
 
As I stated in the first page of this thread, Cakewalk have a relationship with XLN, and although I passed on the RC-20 is basically 6 modules, which could be broken down to 6 PCs in the same way the VKFX was. And of the Mixing tools, there is no transient designer, and the DS-10 would fit well.
 
One of the companies (guy) that receives constant praise on this forum, and constantly appears in the recommended VST threads is Klanghelm. Also ne of the most requested PC to be developed is a VU meter. and the most recommended VU meter seems to be his.  With such a small developer, I think cakewalk would need to be more involved, but would be well received by users. When you want to push the distortions and have more control than the current saturation provided in PC allow, the SSDR is really rated. And this being available in the IVGI format would be well suited to PC. I would love to see an IVGI in the PC, that would fly out to be the SSDR when you wanted further access. The same (Although I don't have these) for the DC8C/DC1A and MJUC/MJUC Jr. for those who are looking for  more compressor options.
 
The other one PC which I have seen repeatedly requests is a Low and High pass fllter (although there is a Boz High pass) which makes sense to me when you want to place it in the chain and use the QuadEQ elsewhere in the chain.  This I think Cakewalk could easily create
 
So I don't think PC is dead, and I don't even feel the word stale would fit becuase I am still very happy with my PC options, they cover the bulk of my needs. I do think it's been to long and too quiet on the PC front especially as before the Hoser it was a while before the previous was made.
 
In the meantime;
With 30 PC available and the requests for it to be integrated into the Plugin manager, 'Submenu by Type/Manufacturer' would be an easy fix.
 
Providing a tidier way to integrate the VST than having an FX chain. Which for something as simple as putting the Klanghelm VU meter at the bottom of my chain, proceeded by a just the Quad EQ an a PC compressor, mean that I have to open the FX chain, click to open the VST Gui, which then hides my compressor, so I have to close my FX chain to see the PC compressor again which has a big impact of the VU result. It's just unnecessarily clumsy.
 
Would make ProChannels just a little fresher than before.
 
Dead, maybe for you, but not for ma at all. I think it's a brilliant format, and everytime I open a VST that needless takes up half my screen space I'm glad the rest of the chain can be left compact, concise and accesable to the side of it.
 

After a registry edit, here is my ProChannel list from last year. I colour the icons for each category differently so it's easier to see.

But as these registry edits now undo themselves, more frequently, I have given up. Now you can see the catagories are all over the places as the Prochannels are sorted by name alpahbetically, so PCs such as  BreVerb and ReMatrix separate out.

 
 
 

Kamikaze I really like your ideas here!! Great graphic ideas man!
 
  People get into deep water and they throw the stick back at you. I just don't have the time for it or care enough to come back at them. You can't be cutting edge and archaic at the same time. There really is no in between. I totally got the statements in question.
 
The truth is usually somewhere in between.Cake is making cutting edge better.Just because a software change isn't immediate or doesn't go your way doesn't put them in the dark ages.This is what I was talking about before, lets stay away from extremes. Like saying someone with a different opinion is extreme and it's compared to politics and religion. Really? This is a friggin software program. I could show you some really upsetting stuff. This is like wrestling kittens.
 
How about this- We have a good thing with the PC.  It could be a better thing . We could add new modules to it. We could even drag a vst into it without a shell possibly.We could save 1/2" of screen real estate maybe.
 
Maybe this is the safest way to get rid of pent up stuff. No one got hurt.
 
Ampfixer- " Is that about it"
 
Probably not.

ampfixer
Kenny wants the Millennium Falcon.
 
Is that about it?

 
Sure as long as my online buddy Wookiee comes with the ship  I have always admired his choices in synths 
 
Kenny