• Techniques
  • playing to a click. Why so difficult? (p.22)
2007/06/18 01:06:53
losguy
ORIGINAL: Ognis
20 - 40%

Whoa there! Throwing numbers like that around will get the thread locked for sure!
2007/06/18 07:24:23
KyleB
playing to a click track is like the Geico commercial. even a caveman can do it, but not a drummer
2007/06/18 07:43:27
tonester
I think that for a drummer, playing to a click is unnatural. It's far too rigid and disciplined They like to play slightly ahead or behind a beat, even if it's milliseconds, to give the tune "feel". From my experiences in a recording studio, the click is never loud enough, either.
2007/06/18 09:51:27
Blades
I think that for a drummer, playing to a click is unnatural. It's far too rigid and disciplined They like to play slightly ahead or behind a beat, even if it's milliseconds, to give the tune "feel".

If you are a GOOD drummer, the click should not prevent you from exploring the territory just before or after the beat to get that rushed or laid back feel. If anything, it's helpful in making sure that you don't over-do it. Sometimes, when playing behind the beat, there's a tendency to also slow down. The click helps lock that in.

In a studio, especially where overdubbing is used (99% of the time), and double-especially if the whole rhythm section isn't recording together (probably not terribly common, except in things like online collaboration and whatnot, though I have recorded entire drum parts to songs without even a reference instrument, because of studio limitations), the click is absolutely essential. It just turns to a festival of slop if there isn't some reliable time-piece. REALLY experienced bands can get away with this, but odds are pretty good that THAT drummer is capable of playing comfortably to a click as well.
2007/06/18 12:10:57
SteveD
ORIGINAL: Blades

I think that for a drummer, playing to a click is unnatural. It's far too rigid and disciplined They like to play slightly ahead or behind a beat, even if it's milliseconds, to give the tune "feel".

If you are a GOOD drummer, the click should not prevent you from exploring the territory just before or after the beat to get that rushed or laid back feel. If anything, it's helpful in making sure that you don't over-do it. Sometimes, when playing behind the beat, there's a tendency to also slow down. The click helps lock that in.

In a studio, especially where overdubbing is used (99% of the time), and double-especially if the whole rhythm section isn't recording together (probably not terribly common, except in things like online collaboration and whatnot, though I have recorded entire drum parts to songs without even a reference instrument, because of studio limitations), the click is absolutely essential. It just turns to a festival of slop if there isn't some reliable time-piece. REALLY experienced bands can get away with this, but odds are pretty good that THAT drummer is capable of playing comfortably to a click as well.

Agreed. Good post Blades. You bring up an interesting point regarding on-line collaborations. Exploring the territory around the click is absolutely the right thing to do when tracking a rhythm section simultaneously. Because of the push and pull of the other musicians, it acually happens automatically. Everybody plays together and the drummer pays attention to grooving around the click.

However, when replacing MIDI loops and samples with a drummer's performance, the game changes. Many times much of the song is already done to loops or MIDI groove clips that are triggering a drum sampler locked to a click. As a drummer, I've got to nail at least the downbeats and play rhythmic figures pretty accurately. These guys are conditioned to a steady tempo, and wandering too far from the click equals loosing the groove, and they are quick to hear that. There's still plenty of human feel and groove when playing closely to a click. I've only met one or two drummers that manage to play like a robot when playing to a click. Very few can be that accurate. However, I've tracked many drummers that can't play to a click because they've never practiced it, and they don't know their timing is problematic.

In my line of work, the click is necessary and fun. Makes for great recordings.

When I'm tracking a live band all at once and the drummer can't cope, we eventually agree to turn the click off and record a live demo. The band is happy, 'cause that's the way they really sound and they're used to the rushed fills, and wavering time. But to more experienced listeners, it almost always ends up sounding like a demo and not a commercial recording.
2007/06/18 20:00:35
holderofthehorns
But to more experienced listeners, it almost always ends up sounding like a demo and not a commercial recording.


Agreed.

And, so that nobody feels picked on, here is a non-discriminating musician joke:

We got music in our jeens.
I got a uncle that plays piano by ear.
And I got a cousin that fiddles with his belly button.
2007/06/18 20:29:25
Roflcopter
*Real* drummers even refuse pace-maker implants.
2009/06/24 07:59:32
dorkdog
Best luck I have had is standing in front of the drummer with the click track in my headphones, and conducting him as a symphony conductor would. Looks silly as all get-out, but it gets the job done!

LJ
2009/06/24 09:28:50
Jonbouy
Someone came in a little late here, I can tell.
2009/06/24 09:45:56
Steve_Karl

ORIGINAL: Ognis

Because drummers are the worst musicians in a band.



Okay, thats messed up. I am a drummer of 10 years (and I'm only 25)... I took lessons for 6 years, and like to think I'm not too bad.

Let me explain something to you. Drummers have a NATURAL feel for rhythm. When you put a metrodome (I know I spelled that wrong) to us, you throw us off. Simple as that. We have our own feel, within our head. As soon as we start to feel someting outside our own natural rhythm, we get thrown off. Its not a simple 4 count on a hi hat, its in us. If you have a drummer that cant keep time, you dont have a drummer. Simple as that. A true drummer sould be able to do, off beats, funk, fills, etc, with out any help. What throws us off the most (within a band), is a screw up on part of the bass. drums and bass are the backbone of rhythm in a song. Do not, I repeat do not say we have no talent. How about this, try doing paradoodles, whilch is tapping R = right, L = Left.. RLRRLRLL, LRLLRLRR.. And see how fast you can do it to time


Most all musicians have a natural feel for rhythm. The best drummers I know love working with a click track and can play, not only with it, but around it, and in many different ways.

It takes experience to be able to hear a click, and stay with it, and also to be able to not loose a grip on ones own internal clock at the same time.

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