In my experience the only people that I've come across that are really averse to clicks are people that can't stay with one, whatever the instrument they play.

That's not to say there isn't a case for not using one sometimes but it's a good idea, especially now that people are getting more used to working remotely, to at least be able to conform to a required standard.

Tight timing, to my mind, never sounds bad and it doesn't mean lack of feel either as you can always inject feel into a strict tempo. It's just a structure to work within.

Something I've found it useful is to ask the drummer to record a simple track to use as the click track that compliments his proper beat. Once you've got a bar or two of that (and sometimes a different beat for choruses etc) you can loop it and use the loop as the click track. This does three things, gives the 'click' some of the timing nuances of the actual drummer, gets him involved in the making of the click and helps him feel like he is playing along with himself rather than a machine.

The difficult bit of this is using the right percussive sounds for the 'click' in the first place for the drummer to hear while recording his main part, but I have found that because he's been involved in choosing the click beat, he's much more encouraged to use it!

Andy

All jokes aside - I think most people have missed the actual reason:
IT'S BECAUSE THEY CAN'T HEAR THE CLICK.
Seriously.
Dig:
The click has an envelope like a drum right?
Click quarter notes are almost always going to be occupied by one drum hit or another. So a drum is hitting right ON every click.
IF the drummer is ON the click - THEN THEY CAN'T HEAR IT.
They can only hear the click if they get off the beat a little. The ear will struggle to find the click. The only way the then hear it is to relax or push the tempo a bit, resulting in messy time.

SOLUTION:
Make a funky syncopated percussion loop in a drum machine that is a totally different rhythm from the kind of beat the drummer will be playing!!!!!!
This way the drummer will always be hearing a timing reference that they aren't interfering with. Their ear can update their accuracy every 16th note or so.
I suggest using Roland 808 sounds because they are very tight and they really cut through.

As an engineer, and as a drummer, I have done this in the studio MANY times. It's the charm.

~DPS

ORIGINAL: DaneStewart

All jokes aside - I think most people have missed the actual reason:
IT'S BECAUSE THEY CAN'T HEAR THE CLICK.
Seriously.
Dig:
The click has an envelope like a drum right?
Click quarter notes are almost always going to be occupied by one drum hit or another. So a drum is hitting right ON every click.
IF the drummer is ON the click - THEN THEY CAN'T HEAR IT.
They can only hear the click if they get off the beat a little. The ear will struggle to find the click. The only way the then hear it is to relax or push the tempo a bit, resulting in messy time.

SOLUTION:
Make a funky syncopated percussion loop in a drum machine that is a totally different rhythm from the kind of beat the drummer will be playing!!!!!!
This way the drummer will always be hearing a timing reference that they aren't interfering with. Their ear can update their accuracy every 16th note or so.
I suggest using Roland 808 sounds because they are very tight and they really cut through.

As an engineer, and as a drummer, I have done this in the studio MANY times. It's the charm.

~DPS

Very well put Dane and your solution is a great idea too!
Randy

Someone came in a little late here, I can tell. -Jonbouy

LOL - makes me want to start a thread about the longest running threads! OP Sept '06 - WOW

I'm a church worship leader and have used my drummer for 5+ years as well as several subs. We use one or more videos with click tracks most every week. These are even more limiting because the lyrics are on the video. So, you miss a measure (usually my bad) and it can be a humbling experience. But I'm the front man and stubborn enough to get it corrected quickly so most don't notice and the rest know that - technology happens.

We have an Aviom system so the drummer, pianist, and myself have the click. The guitars and horns all play without. I think the key for the drummer is that he has his own control over click volume and to have it loud enough that he does hear it. But Dane's note is a good & valid one. The loop can work and we have even used a Roland SPDS for Auxilary stuff as well as loops that he could start and stop and he ejoyed that. However, we have some videos with loops for the click and he has had a hard time following as sometimes they don't articulate the downbeat well enough.

I like Lemonboy's idea to have the drummer create his own loop/beat with which we could also use to replace the video click tracks for our purpose & setting. The groove/tempo is important and most of the time we keep the tempo the same as the originals so that has not been a problem. We also take liberties towards the end and fade to black, drop out the click and segue into a free-flowing period and/or next song so the flow is not interrupted nor seem forced.

All in all - we have had a great experience playing to clicks and it has allowed us to use other technologies like video which has really enhanced our worship & musical experience.

Now if I can just get those horns to play a little softer!!!

If you find a drummer whom practices with a click, most likey they'll have no issues performing with one either.

I start everything off with a click when I set up a song to record, because I often have time signature and tempo changes, so they must be mapped out in advance as I'm setting up the file with all the pertinent information, and I usually make mention of it in the markers. I use lots and lots of markers, sometimes close to 75 per song, but I've found that the musicians I work with are quite appreciative of the information represented there.

On my new project, we're considering not even using a full time keyboardist, nor even running sequences, but running an IPOD with .mp3 backing tracks of synth/special fx only as a sub-mix, with the audio on one side in mono, and the other side being the click only. This eliminates the need to bring a laptop to every performance also. The audio gets fed to mains and monitors, the click gets fed to the monitors of the drummer and anyone else in the band that my wish to have it. Sometimes this is good so that the drummer isn't always having to count out the beginning of every song. I also have loops that are spoken "1-2-3-4" & so on so that those can be incorporated with the click for more of a human feel, and no always subjecting the drummer to "Click-Clack-Clack-Clack". I've found this to be quite helpful in preserving the relations with your drummer(s).

We monitor with an Aviom system, so you can set your own mix.

I've found that as I rehearse with a click, even before the drums get laid down, that I'm playing far more precisely and cleanly, which makes all of the rest of the performances stand out with even greater clarity. With everyone in the band doing the same, the results are quite nice.

I've got a drummer friend who is an amateur and he can play with a click with no problem. He locks in and that's it. In fact, you could even say that he locks in to my detriment.

When playing live, if I count the tune off too slow or too fast, it's about impossible to get him off of the tempo and to speed up or slow down. He's a "set it and forget it" drummer.

I've personally practiced to "metadones" and click tracks live and in the studio for years, and worked with drummers who use clicks so as to stay synchronized to other things outside the band. It's not a problem for most if they practice. But some people have more trouble playing in time than others.

I remember an instance about 25 years ago, and I was studying with a jazz saxophonist (I'm a bass player), and I was playing some modal scales with a click because we were trying to achieve a certain velocity. When I finished the exercise, my teacher shook his head and said, "Man, you played that and stayed right with the metronome the whole time!". I was surprised, and asked if that wasn't the case with everyone, and that's when he told me that a very large number of musicians have trouble matching time with a click and staying consistent. Since then, I've come to realize, to a much smaller degree, it's a gift, just like some people are born with perfect pitch memory, (not me). But one can practice and develop a very useful sense of relative pitch (like me), just like one can practice and become BETTER at playing steady at any tempo.

I played with a drummer earlier today who was using a metronome, and we had no problem playing three different tunes all at different tempos and grooves, but then again, I don't think the band was tugging the drummer out of his pocket. And I'll do a couple live shows this weekend with a different drummer, and he'll be playing all but one or two of the tunes to a click part that was recorded for each individual song, and we'll all groove hard, like we have for over ten years together, backing this particular artist, and everyone will go home happy.

Being able to play steady to a click and still be musical is part gift, but more it's a learned skill.

(If you don't like playing to a click, you'd hate working in Nashville!!)

a band i played with once used seqeunces. we were a full band
but we had congas and horns and other sounds on midi.
we played these seqeunces along with our live stuff with the
drummer using a click track to stay "aligned"

he did a great job and we had no problems. i even think he
enjoyed it. i remeber (if im correct) that even before we
did seqeuncing he would even have his own click track that
he played along with just to check his timing.

his tone and playing was solid as a rock.

First thing is get rid of the horrible midi click sound and get something more accoustic, I use the sound of sticks and have sometimes used a kick drum on the root note and sticks on 2, 3 and 4. Sonar makes this job very easy, some people might like closed hats etc