quarter note clicks are useless. the best click tracks i have found are either acidized tambourine loops or some busy STEADY patterns with more than 2 kick drums per measure. i am a big fan of using audio loops or "techno" electronic drum sounds for timekeeping in headphones because the tones cut through very easily. also there is nothing less musical than listening to "BEEP beep beep beep BEEP beep beep beep" for 5 minutes straight.

ORIGINAL: Jose7822

Well, I personally believe that a drummer (a good one at that) should be able to keep a steady beat with a click on the background, why? Cause if your band plays with sampled material that comes in only on certain parts of the song then you're mucked. On the other hand, it also depends on the style of music. If we're talking about jazz drumming than there's no way a jazz drummer would want to record with a click because that would just ruin his/her groove. So I agree, in a case like that, a click would not do good. Now, for styles like metal, pop, rap, etc. you do need to keep time because, more than likely, in those styles you have to play live with samples. You might get away with it in the studio but not live.

Okay, I see where you are coming from, but hear me out. I may sound like a fool for not knowing what they are called, but the metradones that have a needle that goes from side to side ? Those help ALOT with drumers. Because like I said, we just simply cant hear a "click". And attemping to hear it, throws our "feel" into limbo. YET, when you can look at that passing back and forth, then you can mentaly keep time with it. I think that may be the best answer for the orig poster. Yet I do agree with this quote. As in jazz, and I may add funk, metadones will do little other than throw the drumer off.

Dude! you're funny as hell. "Metadones", that's awesome. I do understand what you're saying man. I was just expressing an opinion that doesn't have to be considered if you don't want to or anyone here for that matter. I guess, to hopefully end this discussion, the best way to finalize this is by arriving at the conclusion of the fact that everyone is different and for each its own. Basically, drummers will have to play around and see what works for them. I've heard of drummers who record using sequenced MIDI drums of their songs in the background, and if that helps than go for it. Well, I'm out....take care everyone.

Dude! you're funny as hell. "Metadones", that's awesome.

I try :P

But honestly I think thats what he needs. A visual metradone, or whatever you kids are calling it these days

Sorry, but there is a lot of bad reportage in this thread. It boils down to a rather simple dualism:

1. Good musicians (with recording experience) can play with a click, regardless of instrument
2. Bad musicians can't.

It is neither more nor less difficult for a drummer/percussionist to play accurately to click than anyone else. No one likes to pull rank or puff themselves up, but I've played percussion live and in recording for 3 decades, in many situations, and with many killer instrumentalists, singers, composers, arrangers and producers. The only lame people that couldn't play to click are just that: lame or inexperienced.

Feel, style, groove - all those are somewhat different issues, and don't negate the ability to play to click. Think Keltner can't play to click and have a pocket deeper than deep? Gadd? Etc?

It is a basic recording skill that *anyone* can learn if they apply themselves. Drummers aren't genetically inferior, click-wise. If you have this experience, you are working with the wrong drummers.

[...hmmm, it felt good to get that off my chest...]

Envoy

ORIGINAL: Envoy

Sorry, but there is a lot of bad reportage in this thread. It boils down to a rather simple dualism:

1. Good musicians (with recording experience) can play with a click, regardless of instrument
2. Bad musicians can't.

It is neither more nor less difficult for a drummer/percussionist to play accurately to click than anyone else. No one likes to pull rank or puff themselves up, but I've played percussion live and in recording for 3 decades, in many situations, and with many killer instrumentalists, singers, composers, arrangers and producers. The only lame people that couldn't play to click are just that: lame or inexperienced.

Feel, style, groove - all those are somewhat different issues, and don't negate the ability to play to click. Think Keltner can't play to click and have a pocket deeper than deep? Gadd? Etc?

It is a basic recording skill that *anyone* can learn if they apply themselves. Drummers aren't genetically inferior, click-wise. If you have this experience, you are working with the wrong drummers.

[...hmmm, it felt good to get that off my chest...]

Envoy

Well, yes, if you can hear it, of course. Hence my post of a visual metradone....

ORIGINAL: Envoy
Drummers aren't genetically inferior.

I was with you right up to there. Even with the

click-wise

stipulation.

ORIGINAL: Ogis
Well, yes, if you can hear it, of course. Hence my post of a visual metradone....

Ouch! C'mon!! Just because I'm playing a percussive sound doesn't mean I can't hear another sound. In fact, working with students as well, you teach them to play with click until the click seems to "disappear", because they are hitting directly on click. And as they become even better listeners, and can control their own tempo and inner pulse, they can start to move their notes a little bit either way, and can start to hear the click peeking out from either ahead of, or behind, the note they play.

This is all pretty fundamental to studio drumming skills. It gets more dicey with classical percussionists, who sometimes don't tend to think of time in the same way as pop or commercial, but that is another story.

Sorry, I'm sure this has gotten way OT for the Sonar forum!

Envoy

ORIGINAL: Phrauge
I was with you right up to there.

Mind you, I'm not saying they (we) are genetically superior either!

Envoy

well i did do some experiments with playing along to loops rather than clicks and thought i was imagining that it was 50% easier to keep time, but based on this thread, it really is easier. uck clicktracks, i'm gonna use loops.
metadones. love that.