Good drummers can. Bad drummers can't.

In 10 years of using a click with a live band, including drummer, I've found that most drummers have never been taught to play a consistent tempo. It's not their fault, that's the way they were taught. I remember when I started using a hardware sequencer more than 20 years ago, it was really tough to play keys and stay on click. Now, it's simple and not an issue. Most of the time the issue is that the drummer who has been playing for any length of time has been told by many people how good he or she is. When you ask them to play to a click, they feel they are being punished and usually respond that way. In my experience with several drummers over the last 15 years, when it is fully explained to them the benifits of using a click, they will work to make it happen. I had an experience quite a few years ago when I introduced the click to a new drummer, he freaked and started to walk out. He made the comment, "real drummers don't use clicks!" I called him the next day and suggested he watch a Dave Weckl dvd I had. On the dvd, Dave mentions of use of using a click with other parts as a way to improve your playing. He touted the use of computers and a click as a way to learn accuracy and once a drummer learned to USE a click instead of being a slave to it, the drummer could have more freedom and expression. My drummer came back to rehearsal and ended up being one of the best drummers I've worked with.

Suggestion: If you're having trouble with the click and a live drummer, use different tones in the click until you find one that the drummer can live with. NEVER use a kick or snare. Keep it innocuous - like a closed hi-hat, tambourine, or cowbell. Then the click is not competing with the drummer.

ORIGINAL: MKS
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If you have ever mixed a project that was recorded with a click, you will never ever want to do it without a click again. It makes mixing so much easier.
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Amen my brother!
Drummers? Don't need 'em. I play bluegrass...!

In the end it's music. It's all about feel! Would anyone of us artists like music if it wasn't for the feel of it?

So just because someone can't play to a click does that make them worthless? No, not if in the end they add the right feel to the music. If someone can't play to a click I stress that is a very important thing for them to work on. It should be part of their daily practice. But I don't tell them to sell their instruments and give music up, or comit harakiri because they are dishonoring the rest of us who can play with a click.

The point being every situation has it's own solution. Not just different people but different songs. Sometimes a wood-block click, sometimes a hi-hat click, sometime a loop, sometimes no click at all. Different note durations work for different songs and music styles. I've even started with a click and muted it after several measures. There is a reason we have all these options in Sonar...

And yes, when playing right on time with a click, the click sound will dissapear at any points a drum is supposed to fall perfectly on the beat. Musicians that have excellent internal time actually seem to be keeping time for the click. Like anything else, it takes practice.

it's just difficult for your average drummer to play with a different "thing" keeping time. natural variations in timing ( stepping up into choruses, fast guitar solos ) are lost in the dust.

you know what the average drummer gets on his IQ test?

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DROOL.



just kidding yo, some of my best friends are drummers. they just wear bibs now.

My 2 cents... I find drumming to a click in the studio is very different than playing live. I find it difficult myself, but I attribute that to my own inexperience in playing to a click track. I record some bands that use a few backing tracks in their live performance (orchestration, loops, etc), which usually includes a click mix that only the drummer can hear. The challenge for them is hearing the click in a high volume situation. The drummer wears cans, but you can't always get the isolation you need to hear the click clearly. One drummer I work with insists that the click be done with a cowbell tone (I know, "I gotta fevah....and the prescription is ....more cowbell"). At any rate that's what comes through his headphones during recording and performance, and he is the best drummer I've ever seen at staying in the groove while playing to a click. He can hear the cowbell cut through the mix no matter what.

ORIGINAL: Ogis

Because drummers are the worst musicians in a band.

Okay, thats messed up. I am a drummer of 10 years (and I'm only 25)... I took lessons for 6 years, and like to think I'm not too bad.

Let me explain something to you. Drummers have a NATURAL feel for rhythm. When you put a metrodome (I know I spelled that wrong) to us, you throw us off. Simple as that. We have our own feel, within our head. As soon as we start to feel someting outside our own natural rhythm, we get thrown off. Its not a simple 4 count on a hi hat, its in us. If you have a drummer that cant keep time, you dont have a drummer. Simple as that. A true drummer sould be able to do, off beats, funk, fills, etc, with out any help. What throws us off the most (within a band), is a screw up on part of the bass. drums and bass are the backbone of rhythm in a song. Do not, I repeat do not say we have no talent. How about this, try doing paradoodles, whilch is tapping R = right, L = Left.. RLRRLRLL, LRLLRLRR.. And see how fast you can do it to time

I think that he meant that drummers are usually the worst musicians in the band - which doesn't really say anything about talent. To be a proficient drummer you do not have to know any theory (99% of theory is related pitch, not rythm). To be proficient with other instruments, you must know at least the basics.

Personally, I don't agree with this point of view. I think that drummers are usually the second-worst musicians in the band. I save the top spot for vocalists.

As mentioned earlier...
There is no ‘I' in drummer
There is no ‘We' in drummer...

But there is an ‘Umm......er.....'

Tell a drummer his playing is bad, and his immediate response is... "OH! I can play louder!"

I've been a drummer for many years. Having the ability to play to a click is a must.
Many drummers feel they have a natural feel for the beat. And most of them with this attitude are also not very good.

A drummer who does alright at live performance, many times will suck in the studio.
But you will never find a studio session drummer who sucks at live performance.

Have we beat this topic to death yet?

My gigging band is 150% sequenced so my drummer is forced to play with a click. After 14 years of using a click my drummer has developed the technique of playing ahead or behind the click. So the drums now have movement. He can make the tempo appear that it's rushing or dragging and all while staying in time. Playing in time is critical but being able to play the entire kit or one inst of the kit ahead or behind the beat is critical for a grooving drum beat.

Through our 14 years of working together we have also developed quite a few tricks in using a click track.

ORIGINAL: Envoy

Susan,

Good point, and since I make the bulk of my living by playing in a symphony orchestra I'm no stranger to that! However, the difference is that while one would have click running in phones the entire track while reading, one could hardly stare at a visual metronome in the same fashion. The other main point is that while we look at the conductor (if for no other reason than to validate his/her existence), we aren't sitting and watching every beat to keep locked - that's what the ears are for. Conductors serve more of a purpose for tempo changes and dynamic phrasing. Besides, it is a rare day indeed where you have a conductor with a great internal clock! One of the main reasons I do non-classical playing is to get out of the tempo mud and sit in the middle of a great groove...

Envoy

Like the conductor, you can see the met out of the corner of your eye.