Well, if you want to see and incredible group of musicians, ignore the acts and watch the pit at a Circ de Soleil performance.

I wouldnt listen to an a s s h o l e either.
Probably the only thing you know how to play is with yourself.

ORIGINAL: Sid Viscous

Here's an example of how screwed up drummers are:
I write the vocals
I write the guitars
I write the bass
but if I even dare to make a suggestion about a drum part, the drummer freaks

ORIGINAL: Sid Viscous

Because drummers are the worst musicians in a band.

This is so interesting... as a person who also has had much symphonic experience, we do use visual cues from a conductor, but by performance (or studio) time we are so well rehearsed and we've played the piece a dozen or more times - the conductor becomes something in our peripheral vision that just keeps us all in sync. Can a conductor conduct prerecorded music accurately? Of course not. He can come close, but only after practicing with that same piece over and over... believe me, I know... I took courses in orchestral conducting years ago and that was part of our training.

The key here is discipline. Practice. Listening. Being a musician and a sportsman. As far as drummers by nature not being musicians, I can't believe someone had the sightlessness to even suggest that! It's been said that the most difficult instrument to play is the simple triangle; it is so transparent and must be absolutely perfectly timed..

As a classically trained musician, what I can say is that the two types of musicianship are very different. I have to do things in rock 'n' roll that I never would have done in a symphonic setting, and vice versa.

With this in mind, might I suggest a pulsing light or the visible metronome? Visible in the periphery this would probably come closest to a conductor. But not just off-on ; it would have to be a ramp effect - triangular or sinusoidal brightness response. Think of it this way - a conductor is an analog stimulus - a click is a digital stimulus. We can sense rate of change between beats thru a conductor - you can't with a click.

Hi,
Being a drummer myself I can say that certain metronome sounds annoy me and others not. When I need to use one I usually prefer a stick sound. The same sound for all beats. Most drummers would rather hear that silent but effective metronome; our left heel (hi-hat foot), keeping the tempo. I find that I depend on it so much that when I need to raise my foot and play an open hi-hat I’ll transfer the tempo tap to a rocking motion with my body. A far as feel and the flow of creativity, as someone mentioned above, I too tend to pay more attention to the grove and play less fills when a click is going. Then I’ll go back ad add some stuff because to me there is not enough going on. When recording I’d much rather have a basic drum/percussion loop going for reasons of feel and inspiration. I’m more myself then and usually never need go back and add fills.

ORIGINAL: newbie1000

Why is it very easy to play guitar or bass to a clicktrack, but very difficult to play drums to a click??

In three pages of replies , I'm sure you have the technical answer, so I won't go into detail...

If you are having problems then there are two solutions.


The drummer needs to go back to square one and learn to play and count his music OR ...........................

Have the bass player play to the click and the drummer play with the bass player as his groove click.

This can achieve a good grooved rhythm section in a recording...
asuuming you are recording both with no crosstalk to separate tracks.



Key thing is to lay down a groove.

re all the drummer hate in this thread - we all know they bring it on themselves. i allways wondered why drummers were so dumb, but when i started drumming in bands i realised that its playing the drums that makes you dumb! - no chords or notes to remember, no lyrics to learn, 4/4 scam all the changes - drummers hardly ever have to apply themselves, so they hardly ever do. they think its just all fun bashing.

Apparently you play crappy music.

ORIGINAL: mildew
re all the drummer hate in this thread - we all know they bring it on themselves. i allways wondered why drummers were so dumb, but when i started drumming in bands i realised that its playing the drums that makes you dumb! - no chords or notes to remember, no lyrics to learn, 4/4 scam all the changes - drummers hardly ever have to apply themselves, so they hardly ever do. they think its just all fun bashing.

Ouch... this thread really is beginning to aim for the prize.

cAPSLOCK (a drummer)

It is my opinion that the drums are the most important musician of the group.
I use a lot of studio musicians and it is imperative that they play to a click and it is imperative that they do it with feel so it doesn't sound like they are playing to a click. If you ar unable to do that, you will not be hired as a studio musician. If you are not a studio musician and pay to record your own music - you can play to whatever tempo/rhythm you like.
I don't know of any session musician who would be hired if they could not:
1. Sight read charts
2. Read at least basic melodic notation
3. Play to a fixed tempo.
4. Do it all naturally and well.

How do you get a drummer off of your doorstep?

Pay him for the pizza.

sorry - couldn't resist the possibility of starting a musician joke thread

well..

Being a drummer and reading this rediculoulsy long thread, I of course have to contribute to it's lengthyness! I read a lot of people complaining about drummers that can't keep time, but I just have to say nothing is worse than trying to drum with people who can't keep time either. Being a drummer is kinda like having a girlfriend, you have to know when to give in as well as take control. In a well balanced situtation, the band I'm playing with needs my groove to keep time for them just as much as I need to listen to them and decide when and what to play. A drummer should never rely on his band to keep time, just as you shouldn't have to hang on every quarter note in a click track.. (there's a difference between listening and relying) so when it comes to drumming, sense of time is internal even though your ears are giving you the tempo. It just comes down to experience as with anything else.. yeah playing in exact time is really important, but feeling it in excellent time is vital. I will admit though, that a lot of drummers without much/any recording experience might have a bit trouble with good time, because in a live environment timing is synergistic and often diverges. They can get away with that until studio time comes, then it's releaved how much the band's sense of time has been poorly infulenced by a drummer with who hasn't been assertive enough.. and being assertive means listening just as much as playing!!!

Interestingly enough, there's a parallel discussion ongoing here:

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/13470/0/0/15841/

FWIW, the PSW discussion takes the somewhat higher road... and doesn't descend into drummer bashing.