• Techniques
  • playing to a click. Why so difficult? (p.9)
2006/09/25 15:38:14
mildew

ORIGINAL: MKS



Drumming doesn't make YOU dumb. Your fingers are doing a good job by themselves.

Again, you must only play crappy music.




here is a song i recently produced - all instruments played by me, song written and sung by db grant.

http://rapidshare.de/files/34431131/4follower.mp3.html


m

2006/09/25 15:40:39
bermuda

ORIGINAL: mildew

the best recording drummers are bass players / keyboard players that just happen to play a bit of drums on the side. they are used to actually listening to the sounds the other people in making, not just egoing over the top.

i have played drums/bass/keys/guit/vox/bv's in band for decades. i know what im talking about when i say drumming makes you dumb.

if you only play the drums you are not really a musician. learn an instrument with notes, and PLEASE learn to set up your kit in under an hour:)


m



Drum sheet music exists and it has notes on a stave ! Wakey Wakey I have some books of it at home.

The best recording drummers are the ones who learned to play and count (or express the music in words in their minds in place of numbers....

If you are a Jazz drummer, then the precise recording of tempo may not be relevant.

Come on lets be fair most folks here will find difficulty programming a drum track, let alone playing a kit to any decent standard,

Accents, ghost notes, application of rudiments etc etc..kinda escapes the folks who care to insult drummers



2006/09/25 15:53:18
mildew

ORIGINAL: bermuda

Accents, ghost notes, application of rudiments etc etc..kinda escapes the folks who care to insult drummers




LOL!

Accents, ghost notes, application of rudiments etc are the LAST thing a producer wants to hear from a recording drummer. Good tone, simple playing, metronomic and funky at the same time - thats "hit record" drumming.

Accents, ghost notes, application of rudiments = "stop showing off, play for the SONG" - silly drummers..
2006/09/25 16:19:41
Ognis

Mildew, after saying this...

the best recording drummers are bass players / keyboard players that just happen to play a bit of drums on the side.


I doubt anyone will take you seriously. If I were you, I'd move on to other topics, you are starting to dig yourself a hole...
2006/09/25 16:27:52
bermuda

ORIGINAL: mildew


ORIGINAL: bermuda

Accents, ghost notes, application of rudiments etc etc..kinda escapes the folks who care to insult drummers




LOL!

Accents, ghost notes, application of rudiments etc are the LAST thing a producer wants to hear from a recording drummer. Good tone, simple playing, metronomic and funky at the same time - thats "hit record" drumming.

Accents, ghost notes, application of rudiments = "stop showing off, play for the SONG" - silly drummers..



I didn't realize you were talking about hit records. I thought you were saying that there was no such thing as drum music, of which you are wrong.

As for hit records:
Many hit records have a tonne of the things I mention. It's what separates many tunes from the mediocre nonsense...

Being that my primary instrument is drums, secondary is guitar and I listen to many hit records and not hit records I feel I have somewhat of an insight on what goes into drum tracks on hit records.







2006/09/25 16:29:12
mildew
ORIGINAL: Ogis


I doubt anyone will take you seriously. If I were you, I'd move on to other topics, you are starting to dig yourself a hole...



if you did not take my opinion seriously, you would not bother to keep fanning the flames.

i posted a link above to some music i recently produced. im the only person in the thread so far with enough balls to back up my opinions with a link to my playing.


m
2006/09/25 16:35:50
manfriday
Why is it very easy to play guitar or bass to a clicktrack, but very difficult to play drums to a click??


I find it is more difficult to play drums to a click than it is to play guitar or bass.
It's relatively easy to keep one limb moving in time to the music, but when you add the other three, things get a little more difficult.

I find it far easier to play guitar or bass to a click than drums, and I am primarily a drummer (15 years as opposed to guitar/bass which I have played for only about 3) ..
and yes, I can play to a click.. I do it all the time both live and in the studio.
But it's one of those things that takes practice.. when I first started I couldn't do it very well, and even when I could managed to keep with the click, the feel stunk.
Ya just keep at it, and after a while you stop playing "to" the click and you start playing "with" it.
you can fiddle around with the feel, playing a little before, behind or on top of the click.. all different feels.


Because drummers are the worst musicians in a band.

I have heard other pretentious musicians make such claims. They are quite silly.

Here's an example of how screwed up drummers are:
I write the vocals
I write the guitars
I write the bass
but if I even dare to make a suggestion about a drum part, the drummer freaks


That is not an example of how screwed up "drummers" are so much, as an example of what appears to be a miscommunication between you and said drummer..
Apparently the drummer feels like he is a part of the band. Judging from the number of "I's" in your post, I would say YOU are the band.
You should be clear with your drummer and let him know that he works for you, and that you pay him a good wage to play things the way you want them. If he doesn't like it he can move along. He can either find another guy to pay him for his services, or maybe find a band where he can be part of a collaborative effort.
Good drummers are really easy to find though, so you should not have any trouble replacing him with someone more obedient.




2006/09/25 16:51:34
madratter
ORIGINAL: manfriday

Good drummers are really easy to find though, so you should not have any trouble replacing him with someone more obedient.



Hmm. Sarcasm or not?
2006/09/25 17:00:57
TheFingers
ORIGINAL: bermuda


ORIGINAL: newbie1000

Why is it very easy to play guitar or bass to a clicktrack, but very difficult to play drums to a click??



In three pages of replies , I'm sure you have the technical answer, so I won't go into detail...

If you are having problems then there are two solutions.


The drummer needs to go back to square one and learn to play and count his music OR ...........................

Have the bass player play to the click and the drummer play with the bass player as his groove click.

This can achieve a good grooved rhythm section in a recording...
asuuming you are recording both with no crosstalk to separate tracks.



Key thing is to lay down a groove.


A very good idea.

It only takes a minimal amount of practice to allow the met to be a reference, and not let it dictate the groove.
2006/09/25 17:11:23
Sbax

ORIGINAL: mildew

the best recording drummers are bass players / keyboard players that just happen to play a bit of drums on the side. they are used to actually listening to the sounds the other people in making, not just egoing over the top.

i have played drums/bass/keys/guit/vox/bv's in band for decades. i know what im talking about when i say drumming makes you dumb.

if you only play the drums you are not really a musician. learn an instrument with notes, and PLEASE learn to set up your kit in under an hour:)


m



There is a good point here about learning other instruments. Learning to play piano may be very good for a guitarist (for example).
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