After upgrading to Melodyne Editor recently I decided to revisit some vocal takes in older projects.
These were made before I bought Kontakt when I was still using SampleTank 3 as my main source for MIDI instruments.
 
They open OK in Splat 2017.05 but after a couple of minutes of playback they cause a major crash citing Sampletank as the cause.
Sonar offers to save a recovery file but this won't open when I re-open Sonar. If I open them, don't play them back, delete ST3, insert Kontakt and replace all the instruments with Kontakt ones then all is fine. 
 
Is anyone else seeing this behaviour? I will see if I get the same issue when I create a new project with new instances of ST3.
 
ZT
 
Intel Core-i5 3570K @ 3.4Ghz, Windows 7 x64, 16Gb RAM, Lots of HDD and SSD space. Sonar Platinum (LT updates).

Did you try the VST3 version or the VST2 version? Try the VST version of sampletank, if you installed the VST2 and visa versa
 
CJ

Hmmm. I can't say I'm seeing the same thing. Same versions of everything, I can load and play and mess around to my heart's content, seems totally stable here. Sorry... 
 
Hold on, I've just remembered I did the rollback/update to the 2017.06 preview version, so I guess I'm not on the same version; still, I'm quite sure I had Sampletank open and working fine in .05, as the project I'm messing around in now was started a couple of weeks ago and has a few instances open in it. So I doubt that's a factor. Probably something else - try a reinstall of ST?
 
Also I have Melodyne Studio not Editor but I have also done the latest upgrade and it seems stable. 

CJaysMusic
Did you try the VST3 version or the VST2 version? Try the VST version of sampletank, if you installed the VST2 and visa versa
CJ

It was using the VST3 version. I will see if swapping for the VST2 version helps. Thanks for the reply.
 

subtlearts
Hmmm. I can't say I'm seeing the same thing. Same versions of everything, I can load and play and mess around to my heart's content, seems totally stable here. Sorry... 
 
Hold on, I've just remembered I did the rollback/update to the 2017.06 preview version, so I guess I'm not on the same version; still, I'm quite sure I had Sampletank open and working fine in .05, as the project I'm messing around in now was started a couple of weeks ago and has a few instances open in it. So I doubt that's a factor. Probably something else - try a reinstall of ST?
 
Also I have Melodyne Studio not Editor but I have also done the latest upgrade and it seems stable. 

Thanks for the reply. I have just tried creating a new project using ST3 VST3 and it's rock solid. Added Harmony Evo (the other main VST I'm using in the old project) and still fine. Tried using Melodyne and also fine. It seems to be an issue with opening the old project file (dated 28 July 2016) in the current version of Sonar.
 
I will try a couple more things:-
- removing the VST3 version of ST3 in the old file and re-inserting it, then repointing all the instruments to the newly inserted ST3 VST3
- replacing the VST3 version in the old file with the VST2 version of ST3,  then repointing all the instruments to the newly inserted ST3 VST2
 
 
Just re-saving the file doesn't fix the problem by the way.

The crash report definitely says that it's ST3 that's crashing and I have been using Melodyne Editor and Harmony Evo a lot in the last week in new projects with total stability so I am pretty sure that they are fine.
 
I have raised a support ticket with Cakewalk in the meantime, cheers guys.
 
ZT

I still have this problem and it's driving me nuts!
 
So, in summary any new project I create (with latest 2017.06 Splat) using SampleTank 3.6.7 VST2 or 3 works fine.
No crashes, all is fine.
 
If I open projects I created 2 or 3 months ago (probably created with version 2017.03 or 04) which use ST3 they crash SPlat after working on them for a few minutes thus any changes are lost. It so happens that I am putting together an album of tracks created over the last few months, many of which used ST3 instruments. So I am now spending ages opening the songs, documenting which ST3 instruments are being used and then replacing them with alternatives which usually also requires re-mixing due to different instrument levels and sounds. It's a royal PITA!
 
I posted a crash report from within Sonar on 25 June and it has had no response. Also when I look at it now using the link I was emailed it does not lead to a problem report so apparently no longer exists....
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/84079 

The problem is reliably repeatable.
 
Anyone from Cakewalk care to comment?
 
Thanks
ZT

I have posted c. 1000 crashes related to Sample Tank3. It does not matter VST2 or VST3, older Sonar update or most current - I got crashes having only one instance with one instrument, say bass. It is enough to do some playing on my midi keyboard to get a crash accompanied with high pith buzz. ST3 is great and I obviously love Sonar too, simply HOPE ONE DAY BAKERS AND IK MULTIMEDIA PEOPLE WOULD GET TOGETHER TO SORT IT OUT.

Your problem sounds worse than mine Afrodrum.
Still it would be nice to know if it's something that's even being worked on 
I would have hoped that submitting a crash dump might have helped with the debugging.
 
It also bugged me as I bought Miroslav on a special deal a couple of months ago so had used it all over the place.
As part of the ST3 infrastructure it meant I also had to replace any Miroslav instruments that I had used with alternatives {thumbdown}

I don't think Cakewalk actually looks at crashes submitted until it comes up with a support case.  So I doubt anyone even noticed you sent it.
 
Sampletank's VST3 implementation has always been very buggy, especially with loading/saving projects.  So much so I've removed it.  Note that old projects saved using the VST3 version will continue to load the VST3 plugin if all you do is disable it in the Plugin Manager.  The only way to stop it from using the VST3 version is to remove the plugin itself from your VST3 directory.
 
If I were having these crashing problems I'd do the following things. First turn off the "Hide Related VST2" Plug-ins and "Replace if Possible On Project Load" options under SONAR's Preferences->File->VST Settings.  In fact that replace if possible option might be the real problem if your older projects used the VST2 version.  The Hide option is mostly because I prefer to see both VST2 and VST3 versions of plugins (so I have control) but it might be painful for you.  Not sure what the right answer is for that one.  The Replace option I don't think is a very good thing since plugin developers aren't so careful about project compatibility.
 
Then load each old project and inside Sampletank go to the Multi panel and use the Save As option to save as a ST3 Multi (*.st3m).  That way you can load the settings into the VST2 version.
 
After I had saved out all the project settings.  I'd close all the projects and go into the Cakewalk plugin manager and disable the VST3 version of Sampletank.  Then I'd exit the Plugin mangaer and then exit SONAR (I don't recommend running the plugin manager without SONAR being open/staying open).  Then I'd remove the Sampletank3 VST3 file from C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3\SampleTank 3.vst3 (move it somewhere else).
 
Then I'd load the bad projects, most likely they will give an error about missing plugin.  I'd then replace the bad Sampletank3 with the VST2 Sampletank3 (I'd try replace synth in the synth panel but if that doesn't work use the kill and re-add completely method) and re-load the saved Multi. Then resave the project under a new name.
 
Sadly I'm not really sure though that will fix your problems, some people claim to have never had problems with the VST3 versions of IK plugins.  I do know the VST3 version of Sampletank3 has caused lots of crashes that the VST2 version doesn't seem to do.  I have the crash dumps and more than enough skill to use a debugger to tell what crashed.  It's always the VST3 version of Sampletank.
 
When you open the Sampletank3 plugin UI, at the top of the plugin window SONAR shows options on the plugin including a drop down that shows if it is the VST2 or VST3 version of the plugin you are running.  If you open a project and it says VST3 you know you didn't get the removal of VST3 stuff right.  (This is how I know SONAR will use the VST3 version if all you do is disable the plugin).

Wow, thanks Matt!


If I could vote for the most helpful forum members you would have to be top of my list.
I already have a "tips" document with a couple of your gems in it such as the CAL scripts for EW Instruments not playing, which also worked on Orchestral Colors. 
 
Anyway, I am pretty sure that I have "Hide Related VST2" Plug-ins enabled as I would normally opt to use VST3s if they don't cause issues. It would be useful if the tiny little icons they use for each VST showed a 2 or 3 (maybe they do but are too small to see) as I often find myself clicking on one then looking at the dropdown to find out which one I got and often deleting it and going back for the other one! Then again ST3 VST3 seems to work fine on new projects, it's only for ones created a couple of months ago that it causes problems. 
 
Anyway, I will work through your suggestions tomorrow and let you know if I make any progress.
 
Many thanks again,
ZT

I wish I was sure any of this will help your problem, sadly there isn't really any magic bullet. Bugs in VSTs are like that.  Unless the developer can reproduce it on command and is willing to look at and fix it, the best you can do is try and find ways around it.  And save often.
 
I've seen enough reports from other DAW with issues with Sampletank's VST3 plugins to make me suspect that when I see crashes with Sampletank involved.  But your problem may be more involved.  I'll admit I haven't been using Sampletank much this year, so it's possible SONAR has developed new problems. 
 
I'm fairly certain they will be shipping a new update to Sampletank this month though, to support the new features needed for Syntronik.  The last Sampletank update shipped in Dec of last year (3.6.7).  It's possible the new version will handle things better.  I know I'll be updating as soon as it ships.  But I don't think I will even bother with the VST3 version this time.  In the past I'd "try" new releases in VST3 form but I always regretted it.
 
Good Luck.