Sorry I could not think of a better title. In general, I am not a fan of amp sims, although I have quite a few. I had no plans to get another sim until someone pointed out Bias Amp Desktop. I loved the Triple Treadplate model. I had some birthday money and it was on sale... So now I own another amp sim lol
 
I do not like the clean or blues models. In fact, the blues models sound awful. I searched for some samples of people using Bias Amp blues models and they sound great. Why?
 
Even before they tweak them, they sound pretty good. I played around with it for a while and it sounds harsh and very thin. I can't seem to get a decent tone.
 
Why is my setup different?
 
Is it my interface that somehow introduces more high end? Is it my guitar (stock Carvin CT4M)?
 
I have a vague memory of Craig Anderton talking about this but I can't remember where I saw it. I will have to go through my videos and search the forums again for that info. But still, the Triple Treadplate is plug and play for me. In this video, it seemed plug and play for this guy too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xnb6MF-rWI
 
I know he tweaked it but it sounds so much better than mine and I am using the same model.
 
Any insights or advice is much appreciated.
 
BTW playing through my real amps and micing, even with an SM57, sounds way better. 
 
Thanks

The guitar, the quality of input you are plugging into and perhaps the audio to digital converters themselves.
 
IME though none of these sims sound as good as they are presented right "out of the box". They need some tweaking.
 
The other thing is that many of the models are designed to respond to the input level like a real amp. So if you had a tube amp and you tossed a simple "gain" pedal in front of it or used a guitar with really high output pickups you are gonna work the tubes harder and get more bite/drive/whatever.
 
A perfect example is in GR5. One of the most useful "Components" in the suite is the "Gain" module. If you put that in front of the various amp models and turn it up you can see how the amps respond to the extra "virtual" input level.
 
The gain module doesn't actually add any real distortion or anything (you can play through it on it's own and it mostly just boosts the volume). It's just making those phoney baloney "tubes" light up and do their thing.
 
Also, of course, different pickups are going to give different tones. I never expect a good "blues" tone until I engage the single coils on my Pacifica (it has been modded with a "Hot Strat" config so it has a humbucker at bridge position that can turned into single coil with the push pots... and it has single coils in middle and neck positions).
 
Try adding some quick reverb to the sound too for blues or choose a "large" room for the cab IR stuff. That helps a lot for that style (and... well many styles to certain degrees).
 
Cheers.
 
Edit: and for the reverb thing set your reverb (if you can) to focus on the higher frequency spectrum instead of EVERYTHING. Reverb on the low end tends to muddy things up so you want the bottom quick and tight or completely dry and the room "echo" dancing around the higher frequencies.
 
This is just my own experience. I am, as always, just a student... not a hardcore pro.

So you think in that demo of Bias Amp he preconditioned the signal somehow? I wish they would share that part when the do that. I ended up purchasing Bias Amp (I am a sucker, I know) based on a couple of the models but the others are just so bad lol. And then I come across someone else using it and it sounds great.
 
If I mic my amp, I can't get a bad sound. Not that it can't get better with tweaking but it is always a good starting point for me. I just want my new toys to do that too :-)

I've never been a fan of the amp sims.  I have tended towards hardware based solutions or miking the Mesa I have.  I actually have several amp sims and while they have a wide variety of amps and cabinets in them, none of them sound good to me. Perhaps I just need to spend more time with them to "dial them in" better.
 
Sims always seem to have a harsh tone to my ears and I like the fatter, smoother sound I can dial in almost instantly with my hardware.  I alternate between the Mesa Studio 22 and my POD2. 

maximumpower
So you think in that demo of Bias Amp he preconditioned the signal somehow? I wish they would share that part when the do that. I ended up purchasing Bias Amp (I am a sucker, I know) based on a couple of the models but the others are just so bad lol. And then I come across someone else using it and it sounds great.
 
If I mic my amp, I can't get a bad sound. Not that it can't get better with tweaking but it is always a good starting point for me. I just want my new toys to do that too :-)

I checked out the vid. He's using an American Strat so that's pretty much going to account for a huge part of that bluesy tone. I'm not familiar with your particular Carvin but I'm guessing it's not going to quite respond the same way.
 
However... I don't really think he's getting the best tone out of that anyway. I can definitely hear the "sim" sound that is such a bugger to get rid of. Funnily enough at one point he gets it pretty much completely under control but then wrecks it once he starts messing with the cabs.
 
I've been hearing a LOT of praise for BIAS but this is another vid where I am hearing far too much of that "sim/DI" sound. I was thinking that maybe they had finally figured out how to eliminate that but I guess not.
 
Personally TH2 is really good IMO for minimizing the "sim/DI" sound even with some of the presets. Not completely and not on all models but I've had a lot of luck with it.
 
I've also learned how to get GR5 to behave more like a real amp in the past year and it is actually much nicer than I had previously thought. Essentially I bought it and was blown away (compared to other sims). Then TH2 came out and it blew GR5 away (IMO) so I just bailed on GR5 for a couple years until I needed something specific in GR5 and decided to give myself a crash course in EVERYTHING it does. Now I seem to be reaching for it more often than TH2 and have a bunch of "go to" presets using it.
 
It should also be noted that the dude in that vid is doing a LOT of tweaking at every step of the virtual signal chain. That is pretty much necessary with sims in my experience if you want to crush the "sim/DI" sound.
 
Also there is a trick outside the sim that minimizes that. It essentially involves creating VERY thin band boost, sweeping it across the frequency spectrum and listening for any "whistling" then reducing that band boost into very thin cut. From there you can widen the Q a litte (very little) andadjust how deep the cut is. You can make a couple of these cuts if necessary but usually one is good enough. You can also use a deesser to get rid of that high end harshness a bit but I never do.
 
Cheers.

Throwing Voxengo SPAN before and after an amp sim is a good way to monitor what is going on. Some sims go overboard with high end harmonics (I.e., way more definition than most amps would really provide) so a LPF somewhere between 4-7Khz can knock those down to more realistic levels. Can try different placements to find what works best for you.

The pre-sim SPAN is good to analyze your pickup itself. If it throws high-power harmonics, you can consider a LPF before the amp sim ever sees the signal (rather than rely on just the amp sim processing).

Most important key to getting a good tone from an amp sim is how you capture the guitar. Use a really good DI box to make sure the signal is clean and strong. Without a good signal, the tone will be thin sounding.
 
Regards,
Dan
 

@beepster, I agree it is not a perfect sound. What I was trying to comment on is it didn't sound so bad when he first started. Mine setup sounds awful unless I do a lot of tweaking. I was hoping that I was just missing something.
 
I can make it better by putting an EQ pre-sim but I haven't been able to get rid of all the harshness yet. I don't like sims and yet I purchased another one. The Tripe Treadplate still sounds good.
 
@mettelus, SPAN is a good idea. I will try that. Bias Amp has an analyzer built into its EQ but the image I am seeing does not match what I am hearing. I will try SPAN. 
 
Also, when I EQ to get a better blues tone, the metal tones sound bad. I was hoping I can pre-condition the signal so each model would work OK and then I could tweak from there. But it seems like each model, other than the metal ones, will take custom EQ adjustments outside the sim. 
 

Ill give you my take. I've been working with these things and testing them for years. Your front end going into the plug is super important but more importantly, the cab Sim behind the amp. 
 
I have an axe fx II xl+ which to me is one of the most powerful guitar processors and amp sims ever made. If I use a cab Sim that doesn't compliment the amp, I get the sound of @as on a roll that cost me $2500. So if your front end isn't very good going in to your computer and the cab sim isn't a good fit, you'll be tweaking until the cows come home.
 
I've used quite a few things going in that I have had good results with. Di box is important so make sure you have a decent one.  But along with that, I've used compressors to treat the signal as well as pedals like tube screamers and over drives. A little boost and coloration can make a huge difference for the better if you go about it the right way.
 
All of the above said, some sim companies don't have it down. I've found that you get what you pay for with this stuff. Amplitube metal, Fender, guitar rig, and that peavey mk plug are really good examples of sims that work well in my opinion. Even there, have a weak front end and a bad cab sim and they sound bad.
 
Can you post a sample of what you are getting so I can hear it and advise you further?  Happy new year!

High pass and low pass make a huge difference too. I often struggle to find the "right" tone as well, but a HP/LP helps a ton. I will start the high pass around 80 to 120 hz to get rid of the low end crud and then low pass around 7500 to 8000 khz to get rid of the high end fizzies. This changes for each amp and preset, but I do it to some extent every time.